Sarah Tanner
Mikki: [00:00:00] Sarah. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I really appreciate first you giving up your time to sort of share with me a little bit of, I suppose I'm gonna say journey and it's such a, an overused term, but it will just leave it there and also I'm not sure, but this might provide you an opportunity to share some things that help clarify, I suppose, your position for anyone who's interested.
So can you kick us off by. Giving us a bit of your backstory
Sarah: before we dive into it. Well, I guess to make it relevant about a backstory of how I became plant based for six years probably is there's several little steps along the way, and I guess that’s like any kind of journey, there's that word again, but any path of self discovery?
It happens incrementally. It wasn't just an overnight, “Hey, I'm going to do this sort of scenario”. So growing up very much, a Kiwi household meat and three vege you know, mum did all the cooking I'm early forties. So there wasn't that many restaurants to sort of choose from when we were kids, it was sort of Cobb and Co, Tony's, and then McDonald's came on the scene, you know, but it was always very much healthy home cooked, wholesome food.
We had a big veggie garden growing. so my relationship with food, uh, was always very nourishing growing up and a focus on home cooking. And then, you know, late teens kind of fell into the trap of calorie counting, which a lot of females do. And unfortunately carry on through later life which I do not advocate for personally.
Certainly not now, but that led to a, a brush with disordered eating. I would definitely say I lost a lot of weight and went vegetarian. Mm. And at that point it was purely from a calorie perspective. Yeah. But unfortunately I [00:02:00] think it went for long enough. It was, it was my final year of school. I was a high achieving student, you know, and it was sort of a form of control for me, I guess.
From that 12 months, a year period. It definitely planted the seed of that disordered eating, I guess, which can present itself in many different ways. And so then carried on through twenties [I was] very much into the gym, always very physically active dabbled with paleo, all sorts of different things. And actually when I look back, that was when I felt my best.
Interesting. When I was doing, you know lots of weightbearing exercise and kind of a paleolithic approach, [I] just always felt amazing. And I was out partying all the time, as a young person. So yeah, I know that these things don't always, you know, that can't be maintained with age definitely. And then I had my gorgeous daughter, Stella and had double foot surgery on both feet.
And that meant [00:03:00] six months, sorry, six weeks, God, six months. Would've been terrible. Six weeks, no weight bearing. So I was literally in bed for six weeks, having everything done for me.
Mikki: Now, Sarah I read that about you. What was it that made you have, like what was the problem with your feet?
Sarah: Yes. So I had hereditary bunions. So for anybody that doesn't know what bunions are on the side of your foot, it's a very pronounced joint. Um, and the, the toes actually, like I had the feet of like an 80 year old woman basically. And they were so painful. They'd wake me up at night and, yeah, I elected. Much to the specialists, you know, advice not to, but I elected to have them both done at the same time, which is not common. Yeah, but subsequently that required a six week period of no weight bearing. So being in bed and during that time, I don't know what it was or what I saw or what I read, but again, I revisited this vegetarian approach, [00:04:00] because, you know, there was this information out there that meat was inflammatory. And so I was just, my main focus was keeping inflammation down, speeding up healing. So high dose, vitamin C all the things. So that was kind of like that, that toe back into that, you know, vegetarianism.
Mikki: Can I also say like, it's not hard to find that information, you know, like the, but even back when you were talking about the idea that initially in your sort of high school years, that meat will make you fat. Well, not make you fat, but you know, going vegetarian will help you lose weight actually is probably more common.
And I definitely had a lot of girlfriends and myself was vegetarian for two years for that reason. But to then revisit that with your surgery, with regards to the inflammatory nature, like that information was there then, but I see that all of the time now, and I'm sure that you probably do as well. The idea that an anti-inflammatory [00:05:00] approach is to the exclusion of those animal products.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think, look to touch on that, whether it's about food or whatever you will always find in today's age, you will always find information to back up your belief. Of course. So if you think the earth is flat, you'll find information you know, to back up your idea that the earth is flat, whatever it is.
So if you're looking for more information, That, you know, keeps you in your belief system that doesn't challenge it. It will be there. Yeah. And I think that's the danger zone of, so looking at anti-inflammatory will actually a lot of plant foods now, you know, uh, have an inflammatory response in our systems, but it's so much down to the, to the individual.
So yeah, that was really short-sighted of me to have that kind of like tunnel vision, you know, remove meat. Here. It says it's inflammatory, whatever in hindsight. Yeah. That that was [00:06:00] not the right way to go. But look, you live and learn. Oh, understandable how,
Mikki: how you did. Yeah,
Sarah: yeah, yeah. And so Stella was 18 months old.
So now she's nearly 10. So that gives you an indication of how long ago that was. And then organic became a really big focus when she started on solids. And that is still something I absolutely hand on heart am very passionate about, I think organic regenerative farming is, is the way to go. Um, both in animal agriculture and water culture.
Mm. it was through a business that I had an older staff member that I had working for me who was vegan for, or had been vegan rather for 30 years or something. And it's funny when you, when you're getting attached to particularly veganism, you don't actually stop to look at the person [and ask] “Hey, do they look healthy?”
You know, have they got bright white eyes? Have they got healthy teeth? And when I look back Pip, I'll be [00:07:00] careful here because, um, you know, she's an absolutely gorgeous lady, but perhaps that wasn't, you know, the ideal [picture] of health. Yeah. Yes. The, the notion was there of all the ethical sort of practices around veganism, but it was anyway, long story short.
It was a comment that she made in the kitchen one day that said you take on the energy of the animal that you eat. And I'm a really an energy-based person. Yeah. And that to me was like, oh, Huh, you know? And then when you work through the various documentaries, if you can call them that the, the propaganda that's out there, basically in film format of veganism.
Yeah. That, you know what goes on all animal agricultural practices. It's very much about factory farming basis. And of course, nobody would agree with that as, as a way to feed humans or, or to look after the animal, I guess, through its life cycle. But that just played on me and psychologically. And I think that's the [00:08:00] really big thing with veganism or if you want to say plant based, um, it's very psychological.
Yeah. So it plays on your emotions and to the point of putting your own health in the back seat to maintain that ideology and stick to the plan. yeah.
Mikki: So Sarah from, when you did sort of transition to exclusively plant based or vegan, were you at that time experiencing any sort of health issues or was it just sort of on the back of your surgery and the healing from your surgery that you then made that transition?
Sarah: Yeah. And I guess I have this strange obsession with being as healthy as I possibly can. Yeah. So for me, it was kind of this, it was this natural progression from being organic whole foods focus to then, you know, just absorbing again, all this information that backed up what I was believing. Yeah.
That it just, it just fell into veganism. And I [00:09:00] truly thought that I was doing the best thing for my health and for the animals. Planetary never really came into it for me. Uh, But yeah, it was really for, for my health and the health of the animals. That was my two main focuses. And so I wasn't an unhealthy person by any means to start with. It wasn't because of any, any particular reason, I did come down with shingles, uh, and again, you know, the information out there about inflammation and protecting the immune system. And it's very much plant based information and yeah, you just kind of end up in an echo chamber. Don't you where it's just like this constant “Okay. Yeah, I am doing the right thing. I am doing the right thing.” And so you just stick on it. Um, but now of course I have hindsight, so yeah. A wider vision.
Mikki: Yeah. So, so do you remember or recall sort of any, uh, health. Like how you actually felt. I guess I asked this because often when we [00:10:00] make dietary change, it's like it's when you make the decision to do something and you do it like so much of how you feel is based on the psychological aspect, you know, rather than the physical and sometimes that psychological or emotional, aspect can almost override how you physically feel like there's this… You feel like you're making good decisions. On the basis of what you've described for your health and for the health of the animal. So there's that sort of sort of moral virtue if you like did that. Yeah. So I suppose what I'm asking is how was your health in the initial stages?
Sarah: Yeah, I mean, pretty good.
I think, uh, my weight didn't really change. I'm not. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not an overweight person, so it's not like I did it for that, for that reason, which I know some people do. I've never been on any medications. So there, wasn't kind of an incentive to get off meds. Like you see in these again, documentaries.
Um, so yeah, I mean, [00:11:00] I can't vividly remember any dramatic change. Yeah. Other than I spent a lot more time having to prepare and think about food Yeah. Because it's that much more difficult of course, to try and, um, tick the nutritional boxes. If health is your focus when it's plant based. It was really around Christmas time, beginning of this year that I started to just question, why was I continuing with this? Because I was not feeling good. And, um, so various things, which is really common for people with no animal products. Um, You know, hair loss, it was just constantly, constantly falling out.
Um, when I'd wash it, it was just like, oh my God, this can't be normal. Energy. Just, you know, low energy, no motivation. I'm a very motivated person and always you know, have a plan, get things done. And I was just sort of like in this fog all the time, just no mental [00:12:00] clarity and tired. Um, my little girl, you know, she'd come home from school and I would fall asleep on the couch in the afternoon.
It's like, and even she said to me a few weeks ago, she was like, you know, mummy, I'm so glad you're not vegan anymore because I used to worry about you when you'd fall asleep on the couch and I'd be like “what sort of example is that?” Yeah. You know, to, to give to my daughter. Yeah. And that's when I'd really just had to sit with the idea, because again, it gets into your head that you're a bad person as suddenly you're going to start eating animals again, or animal products and how dare you, you know, you're going against everything that you've believed in for this period of time.
And this can happen to people from six months or like myself, six years, you know, it really gets into your, into your thinking space. And I just came back to that original. Goal of, well, I want to feel as good as I possibly can. And not only that, I want to set the example for my daughter and I'm not doing that.
[00:13:00] So I need to, I need to stop this. And so, but I had to sit with that for several months, like to literally. Picture myself. Okay. If I was to sit down to a steak right now, how would I feel about that? How would I feel about eating that? And so it was really just making peace with the decision and being 100% okay with doing that and nourishing myself until I could take the first step of action. So that was also, so there was absolutely no guilt. I didn't want any guilt associated. I just wanted to feel like I was nourishing myself, a really positive [thing] in a different direction. Yeah.
Mikki: Sarah when did you notice that your health was… that you weren't feeling a hundred percent and I guess you know, we've been through quite a bit over the last two years with regards to COVID and additional stress and you're a mum with a kid, you know, like the, [00:14:00] I mean, those two things just by themselves are, um, sort of reasons for people who can justify why they feel poorly based on just life alone and, and sometimes, and particularly with an ideology like you don't sort of then examine that side of things. So when did you start feeling like, or notice that your health wasn't a 100?
Sarah: Probably for at least a year. Yeah, I reckon. Yeah, just feeling like I didn't have that buffer, you know, and just constantly hungry. Always snacking and high calorie snacks. So I just literally eat fist fills of cashews and still not be satisfied. And of course, that's my body screaming out for quality saturated fats, which you just can't get from plants. You know it wanted that cholesterol and the saturated fats and the, all the things that you can get, even just from a simple pasteurised egg, [00:15:00] you know, I'm seeking from all this high calorie stuff and then just ending up bloated, but still hungry, you know? And, yeah, it's just, I just sort of thought, why am I doing this? Like really? And I think it's also important to touch on. Okay. Yes. My, my income is based around Instagram and it's food content based, and that's, that's my brand. And so I was also very conscious of what will people think. Understandably, what, what will happen to my brand? It became part of my identity.
Yeah. And that's a real danger zone as well, because then just like in veganism, I was putting other people's opinions or, you know, thoughts above how I actually felt. And that's, again, through that process of sitting with the whole decision of changing, I was like, well, listen, I'm prepared to go to zero followers, lose all my brand contracts.If it means that I can get back on track here and start feeling [00:16:00] better. Which thankfully it didn't. And of course people were very supportive and you know, there's been a small percentage of negativity, but that's cool. I expected that. And that's okay. But you know, on the whole people were very supportive and, you know, Kind of welcome back type thing.
Mikki: Yeah. It's interesting that, um, cos one of the, one of the pushbacks that I see with regards to sort of diet out there of, you know, um so you have the backlash against a plant-based diet not being able to provide the nutrients that we need. And then the pushback is, well, there's a few pushbacks, one, “look at this person because they're super healthy and they're vegan.” And then there's also the, the idea that, “oh, you are just not doing it properly,” whereas …
Sarah: yeah. I've had that. I've had several comments like that. Yeah. Or just take this supplement, you know, and you would've been fine. I'm like [00:17:00] seriously. Yeah. No, it's not the solution
Mikki: because you actually, you, as I understand it, you came from at it from a health perspective, I imagine you would've been completely sort covered on the typical supplement side of things.
Sarah: Absolutely. Yeah. And then some, I mean, I say to people, you know, that say that to me, (it hasn't been lately), but definitely initially when I announced that I was going to be including animal products and, and my content, uh, people were like, why didn't you just take this supplement? Why didn't you just take this? Why didn't you just take this? And I'm like, “dude, I was taking so many pills and powders and potions that I was like, rattling, you know?” And there's, there's a point where you just think again, you can get. most of what you need from a beautiful organic pasture raised egg that you're [currently] taking, you know, five or six different synthetic. A lot of them synthetic man made supplements. Which again, it's all about that as you would clearly know, but [00:18:00] the bioavailability of the nutrients, you know, just because you're popping those pills, it doesn't mean you actually absorbing what you need. And I think that was a big problem for me as well.
You know, I amino acids just, you know, I had them tested. They were just so low, even though I was taking a sports supplement, amino acid powder, and I've dropped all of that. Now I don't take any of that stuff now. And I just feel so much better for it because I'm getting it from whole foods. Yeah.
Mikki: So, Sarah, what was your, did you get blood done to have a look at, you mentioned the amino acid testing and I'm not sure if that was through urine or through blood, but what kind of tests did you take to sort of determine what was going on under the hood? Because I think that's a question which people often are unsure about.
Sarah: I actually had the hair test done, which look, I'm sure blood is most accurate. But yeah, everything, everything was fairly mediocre. Uh, iron is always a hard one to tell, because if you're supplementing, then your iron levels are going to appear okay. Yeah. well, mine did, but you know, the actuality of it was that they weren't. But the aminos was a real one that the naturopath, you know, really highlighted. Yeah. Really, really low.
Mikki: And I think this, I guess, and also to go along with that, it's, you know, the tests tell you one thing, but actually how you feel tells you so much more than, than what tests can sort of do, because I see a lot of clients who are, who aren't necessarily plant based, but they just don't actually include enough of what they need in order to have these optimal levels.
And so people will go to the doctors and get thei blood tested and it might fall within that reference range and they think, well, I'm normal, that's fine. But most of those sort of ranges are more an average of all of the people that have gone in to get that test. And most people who get tests aren't testing [00:20:00] because they're feeling optimally like amazing they're testing cos something's up.
Sarah: that's right. Yeah. So,
Mikki: so I know, yeah. I just find it super interesting. So you had made the decision to, obviously you'd worked through it all in your head. Um, and then did you just, obviously you reached a point “I just have to do it for me.” How was your digestion? talk me through your first meal and the first few days, like, how was [it?]
Sarah: Yeah. Um, well, it's probably also important to note that my husband and my daughter are not and never have been plant based. Yeah. so I have cooked animal products in the house, her whole life, so that never stopped. And I said to myself, and I never had. An inclination to have any of it, you know, so I'd be doing her in organic min spaghetti Bolognese and I never had a craving you know, but I did say to myself, if I ever have that craving, I never want to self deny because I never want to go back to that space of late teens where it was about [00:21:00] deprivation and.you know, to me, that would be my body telling me something. And I never had those inclinations over the years, but I was cooking some scrambled eggs for her one day. And I had that real, like, nearly drooling that real crave of, oh my God, what's that? Yeah. You know, I could eat these right now. And so I, I didn't, she, she ate them obviously.
I was like, okay, this is interesting. Let's see where this goes. Anyway. Long story short, the first animal product that I included was a Marine based collagen powder. Now that might sound completely ridiculous because it's not even food. Right. But I was like, okay, I'll just, I'll just see what happens.
And I have never had. And I've told several people this within 10 minutes, I've never had such a noticeable physical response to anything that I've taken. It was literally within the [00:22:00] first 10 minutes. And I was sitting at my laptop much like this, and I drunken this stuff and it was just like this wash came over me that everything just sort of buzzed.
Wow. And. It was literally like, my cells were just going “great!”. Yeah. Oh my God. Something other than tofu. And, I guess that was, and that is something that veganism has definitely left with me is that connection to the body and the, I guess, you know, the energetic side of it. Yeah. And that's why I will never regret, you know, doing it for the time that I did. I would regret it if I didn't jump out, but, you know, I think there's, there's a lot of really beautiful spiritual aspects to it that I think will stay with me forever and the connection to our food. But the response of having that Marine collagen was, just like, “wow, if that's what this can do, what would you know, XYZ do?”
So that was the first animal product. And then, [00:23:00] , well not, it's not a direct animal product, but you know what I mean? And, then it was yeah. Pasteurized eggs. And I just had it really simply poached on a piece of toast with some sauerkraut and I was just like, oh my God. Oh, great. Yeah. So delicious.
So an answer to your digestion question, it's been really, really good. And I haven't had, yeah, I haven't had any troubles, but I have been very slow in the introduction to new things. Other than organ meats and things like that, I've pretty much had everything, uh, so far little bits of everything and definitely lots of eggs, your daily, daily eggs, just absolutely loving them.
Mikki: See, my, husband was vegetarian for 27 years and then when we, uh, after we'd been together for, I thought it was one year, but in fact it was two years he spent about six months in that space of, “oh, that bacon smells really good”, because [00:24:00] he would cook it, uh, to then yeah. Um, he tried it and then he's basically been making up for lost time.
Um, and it is interesting. So I suppose, I guess the, the thing is, is that you can be a perfectly healthy, vegetarian, it's easier to be a healthy, vegetarian than, than a healthy vegan just because there's a lot more consideration. And, um, and so it's not like, um, we are here to suggest that, um, plant-based exclusive is not the way for anyone and that, you know, that that no one can be perfectly healthy with it.
But I think it's, this is a, an important conversation in light of the, I'm going to just call it propaganda that's out there that, plant, exclusive plant based is, you know, healthy, which completely goes against, you know, what it means to be healthy in terms of what our cells need. Um, whilst you can be healthy, it does take a lot more sort of consideration, but that's great re your digestion and I think I was saying that because his was fine too. And that's not the experience of everyone.
Sarah: is like super no, I think, yeah, just being very gentle and gradual on yourself will definitely help that. Yeah. But yeah, I think, I think with the, with the plant based movement is, uh, it's a big industry and I think like anything that's worth a lot of money and has very wealthy people backing it. You need to kind of look at the ‘why’ and is that best for us really? And. You know, I mean, I don't know that they've really taken off globally, but there's, you know, a couple of particular brands, American-based of artificial meats, you know, lab grown meats and. Really, I think, well, first of all, why, why, why would you go down that track?
And second of all, is it actually any good for us? Um, a lot of genetic modification going on, and then there's just such a big contradiction, I think. And, and you can, I certainly recognized that whilst I was vegan, but even more so now that you know, you have [00:26:00] this rubbish that they're calling food. Under the umbrella of better for the environment, better for the humans, but, well is it really better for humans? And is it better for the environment? You know, I think, um, so that was another thing that I did to kind of challenge my thinking was I looked at, I just got out of my tunnel vision and looked at the exact opposite of what I believed in. Yeah. And of course that information is just as much there as there is to support your beliefs.
And I was watching things like on YouTube of X vegan stories. So, um, some of them are pretty graphic, you know, what people went through with their health and then popped out the other side to be able to tell their story. And I feel really grateful that I never reached those depths of, you know, malnourishment, there's a woman I’m you've heard of her Leah Keith who wrote The Vegetarian Myth. Yeah. Who was 20 years vegan and was just so wrapped up in it. That that was the thing to do for all the reasons, you know, planetary. She was an activist until she started getting spinal deterioration and, you know, [00:27:00] that's something she has to live with for the rest of her life.
Yeah. I just think we have to be very careful with the information that we take in because, again, like anything, there will be, there will be two sides to every story. So I guess just being fully comfortable with whatever it is that you follow, first of all, how do you feel? That's and you mentioned that before, that's the absolute key, you know, people can, people can now say to me, well, animal products are the worst things in the world.
They're going to destroy this, that, and the other thing. And all I need to, all I need to do is [think] “how do I feel?”. And, you know what, I feel really good. Yeah. I feel so much better than I did this time last year. And that tells me everything that I need to know. And yes, I'm being obviously very privileged in my choices and what I can spend money on with pasture raised and organic and grass fed and those things, which a lot of people can't, that's, you know, I, I get that, but it's doing the best with what you have access to, I think, uh, [00:28:00] and yeah, just constantly checking in with how we feel, because with, with these things, you know, it's easy to outsource how we feel based on what other people are doing and how they look. And yeah, the plant based vegan, that's just so glowing and healthy and living in Bali and, you know, fabulous. But are they really, I don't know, this, this stuff isn't real.
And, but actually it doesn't matter. It's just about how you feel. Um, That's that's literally the, the end of the day question. Yeah, totally. And if you don't feel great, then what can you do?
Mikki: Did you surprise people like, and I'm not talking about your following on Instagram and, and things like that, but those close to you, were they surprised when you'd told them of your decision?
Sarah: No one showed it really dramatically on the, on the outwards. I was at a girlfriend's wedding in Christchurch and, uh, she used to be plant based herself. And I said, you know what? I think, I think the time has come to, you know, move away from it. And she was just like, oh yeah. Yep. That's cool, babe. [00:29:00] Yeah. You know, it just, it's just really, um, very supportive and I don't have a whole huge group of close friends, just, you know, very tight family and a few small, you know, small group of friends that, yeah. All of them just really like, okay, that's cool. I think because I've been fully transparent with the process and the why. People can't really argue with it because, um, it's, it's my story. And it's yeah. I mean, I'm an expert in myself. I certainly don't claim to be an expert in anybody else and how they should feel and what they should do.
So yeah. Whilst there has been yeah. Messages and things that's yeah, that's fine. Yeah. I know that it's nothing to do with me actually, because I'm okay with, with what I'm doing.
Mikki: Can I ask what are some of those, uh, the negative sort of pushback. I'm glad at least for you that it's in the minority, is it based on [00:30:00] their understanding of your health or of the, you know, you know, what kind of arguments are people, I guess, putting up?
Sarah: It's just veganism. Okay. and yeah. Okay. That's a good word, but it, and, and even when I was, you know, that way eating and actually even when I sort of first started with it, I thought, man, there's some angry vegans out there, you know, there's so like just angry and I never wanted to be that person.
Yeah. So I never wanted to be the vegan preacher. You know, you must do this and you're going to be this amazing, fabulous, good person in the world. If you follow a vegan diet, I, I really bit my tongue to not be that person, because that doesn't inspire anybody being told what to do. But so much of it is that this way or no way mentality. And that's when it, and you know, I may upset some people here, but that's when, to me it becomes quite cult-like. Yeah. That you cannot accept any other way of thinking or living [00:31:00] no matter how the person feels or operates in their own daily life, that is literally this way or no way. Things always need to be questioned.
I think things should always be questioned within yourself, outside of yourself, around. That's okay. It's okay to question. And when you can't or you feel that you shouldn't, I think is when it becomes a problem. So I mean, the message is whilst I don't want to sort of go into details because I've just, you know, let them go.
But just very much a common thing was that people felt disappointed that I'd let them down, that they'd lost this person that they looked up to as a plant based sort of example. Um, and that's why I say this thing is not real. And that's really important to remember is that whatever you see on there is just such a tiny snippet of someone's life. And they, they form that opinion and that judgment based on only what they see on the screen, they don't know. They don't know me. And, [00:32:00] but on the same token, I don't know them. And I don't know what's going on in their own life for them to actually take the time to put that out towards me. So that's, that's okay.
Yeah. I I just say, thanks for following up until now. I hope you, you know …
Mikki: yeah. Go well, and that's, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Because it, that's not that disappointment is something which some people, which I think could prevent some people from making tough decisions in their life. And sure.Someone listening to this might go, oh, come on, mate. It's only a diet. You're only talking about food. Yes. But it's, it is actually so much more than just food, as you know, it's a whole sort of ideology. And there's a lot behind it. And it doesn't matter what type of diet you are eating. It, it is always more than just food, but I find that the disappointment it's like they feel, think that you should feel a bit guilty for what you are doing to them, which I always find that super interesting on social media.
Like you've got this real connection with someone that [00:33:00] actually that they might have with you because they follow your feed every day, but you don't even, yeah. You know, know who they are.
Sarah: Yeah. And, and we've seen that play out over the last two years, I think with differing opinions and views and standpoints, and a lot of people have been pushed apart because you know, they're so firm in their belief and exactly to your point that it's not just food and it, it just, it's a psychological thing. I think that you, and again, coming back to the questioning, if you, if you can't have open honest discussions with people, um, that will, they don't have to agree with your view, but. at least hear you out and respect your opinion on, they don't even need to respect it. Just accept that that's and not try to change you. Yeah. Where, we are this constant sort of society of trying to change people to fit into our own belief systems. Um, but that's, that's not diversity of life at all. You know, I mean, if we all thought the same and did [00:34:00] the same, then that's pretty sad.
Mikki: I totally agree. Sarah, how are your brands? Like I know you're a brand ambassador for like Ceres, for example, actually, you know, I say, I ask you that question. I can't imagine that you would've got a lot of pushback.
Sarah: No, but I was very respectful, particularly with Cere’s Organic's incredible team, incredible company, and I'm so grateful to be aligned with them.
It's coming up to six years now and, but I was very mindful of that. They bought me on as an ambassador. As a plant-based ambassador. Yes. Organic focus, but it was plant-based. And so before I put it on social media, I contacted them. And the other brands that I work with that up until that point, I had only done plant-based content for, um, just to say, Hey, this is where I'm at. Totally understand if this doesn't fit with the brand or our arrangements and things. That's cool, but I just need to let you know and have full [00:35:00] transparency. And of course, yeah. I mean, we are dealing with humans, you know, and all completely respectful and understanding and supportive. So, um, and I think because they know me too, they, they know that I'm not about to start slapping on roast beefs on my Instagram, you know, a week after I've announced that I'm including animal products. yeah. So whilst I'm being slow and gentle with myself, I'm also being respectful to the community that it's not just this really quick change and it's, it's taking them along the journey with me as well. So, um, and it's funny when I first put a fish recipe up, I got all these comments. “How was it? How did you feel? What did it taste like?” You know? Yeah. So people are quite intrigued. Because for a lot of people on the flip side, they cannot imagine going vegan. Like it's just this completely foreign concept of removing all animal products and animal based products from, from their [00:36:00] nutrition.
It's just like, it's just not even a, not even a thought. Yeah. So for them, I guess it's really interesting to, to follow someone that's done that. So that. They've done that and dedicated their time to it. Now they're going back in. It was, but it is like that. It's like rediscovering your palate again. And, um, just that fat, like that delicious fat content that you can never get from plants, no nut or seed is ever going to satisfy that satiation of yeah, salmon or eggs, you know, the egg yolk. And just like you said, with your husband with the bacon yeah. It's yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's kind of like in us, isn't it? Thatyeah, we, we just come alive with, and it doesn't need to be excessive, even just small amounts of good quality saturated fats. That, again, we are taught are terrible and they're the demon food and, you know, they'll cause this, that, and the other thing, health complications and problems, which. Is it true? I [00:37:00] don't know. I'm not an expert, but I know that I feel better for having it.
Mikki: I think that, I think that whole, you know, how you feel and your, how your health is sort of transformed and your energy transformed is really indicative of the fact that now you are actually getting stuff in, which is suiting you, you know, and I think that's super important.And my friend Lara, she talks about it. She, the way she says it just has just made so much sense. She's like we are biological animals, you know, we are. We've been on this earth for millions of years eating other animals. Like it was this is what kept us alive. So it's a, um, it's so it makes sense that for some people having to have a craving that, uh, the nutrients you get just from animal protein, you can immediately satisfy when you have it.
So, yeah.
Sarah: Um, and I think that's interesting, interesting point too, that. Yes, we don't live in caves anymore. We all get that. But if we go back to how we ate, uh, [00:38:00] ancestrally, and that's going to be different for people from different parts of the world, of course, which is always really fascinating, but the food.
Industry in itself has become so far removed from as nature intended. You know, a lot of the foods that we have today just went around 50 years ago. So it's this really fascinating industry. I think of what we now consider as food to me, I'm just like really . Um, and yeah, like I say, we don't have to go back living in a cave, but the, the Leah Keith woman that wrote The Vegetarian Myth in one of her interviews that I was watching. She made a really incredible point that I hadn't actually considered before and by saying, and I'm sure she's not the first person to say it, but by saying that you cannot have food without death. Mm. It's just impossible. So even if we look at plant-based a plant-based movement where you've got all your crops, there is an element of death involved in the harvesting and you know, of, of growing those [00:39:00] crops, whether it be mice or insects or the microorganisms in the soil, and then it becomes, well then why is a cow's life more important to me than that life?
And it's, again, it's this contradiction of it doesn't make sense. And for her to say, you cannot have food without death to me was just like, wow. And then eventually we become food for the earth ourselves. Yeah. And you've probably heard those amazing stories where people get buried under their favourite trees and the, the roots of the tree grow around the corpse of the body and form the, like almost this human body shape.
So it's this, it's just how you look at the nourishment. I think it's this beautiful symbiotic process of. Yes, we, we eat life, but then we get eaten too. Yeah. So we're all just part of the food chain. Ours is perhaps a little bit slower than some life forms, but we'd end up in the same spot and the plants eat us. They're carnivores so, it's, that's why blood and bones so good. For the garden. You know, another thing [00:40:00] that I just like, duh, I wasn't thinking when I was growing my veggies. Oh, why does this make them grow so much better? Oh, nutrients, but you don't right.
Mikki: It's like anything, like until, unless you sort of step back, you, you are, you have the opportunity to step back or step out, then you can look at it with fresh eyes, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's a really good resource. I'm sure you've come across it Sarah, Sacred Cow.
Sarah: Uh, yes. So I watched their interview with Joe Rogan. Oh, cool. Who I know was very controversial for a lot of people, but he has some fantastic guests on. Um, yeah, so I watch that one there, there, so very similar to Vegetarian Myth.
It seems their whole, um, Have they done a movie or it's just the book?
Mikki: the book and the movie and the movie's actually coming to Auckland as well on July 8th. Oh, cool. I'll send you the link. Cool. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. um, Sarah, I think so I was reading some of the comments, um, underneath some of your more recent posts, like the, the posts where you announced that you were making changes.
Um, and [00:41:00] that it would be gradual and of, and like you said, I saw nothing, but, you know, hundreds of supportive comments. And I also think that having you out there as a, you know, I mean, I'm gonna say influencer and I don't mean that in a bad way, but you know, you put your content out, that's people follow you and they look up to you.
I feel like people in your position who are transparent gives people permission to question, you know, and I think that's, what's so important about what you do is because we, they don't just feel the guilt or the shame that might come from, um, having thoughts, like may, maybe this veganism isn't working out for me and, and that, as you say, it does, you know, brings up a lot of emotions because it isn't just food.
So that's why I really wanted to talk to you because I felt like it's great for people to hear your story around that.
Sarah: And that was something that was really surprising to me, actually. So what you see on the public feed [00:42:00] is, I guess, censored, I don't censor it, but it's what people are comfortable to be putting on a comment feed.
Whereas what came into the direct messages? Something that really surprised me. I. I knew there was going to be negativity. Yeah. And I was okay with that. But what I didn't know was that I was going to get this huge amount of people, vegans saying to me, thank you. I haven't been feeling great. And by you announcing this has allowed me just like you said, it's made me feel like I've been given permission to not only question it, but perhaps to ease my approach. And actually I'm feeling a bit emotional saying that because, um, no one should feel like shit. If I can say that word on here, we're not born to feel mediocre and crappy all the time.
And. If nothing else, if by me going through those six years and then [00:43:00] being able to pop out and share the story of why I'm not anymore, if nothing else comes from it, that I can inspire someone else to perhaps question it as well. Or even before they take that step to go vegan or fully plant based. Is this for me?
Then my job is done. Like, because we should all have the ability to feel really good. Yeah. And we should all have the ability to feel full of energy in life. That's what life is for, for living. And, um, so that was something that really, really blew me away. And I'm still getting messages actually. So people park it, you know?
And what's it been six, seven weeks now. They've seen it perhaps initially they thought, damn, you. You know, the attack mode and then they've sat with. And because it is such a thought process to get into veganism. It's obviously gonna be the reverse to get out. And [00:44:00] yeah, I'm still getting messages today of people basically saying initially I hated you for it, but now I wanna say thank you because it, yeah, it feels like it's given me permission to.
Uh, to soften their approach. So that was really,
Mikki: really cool. That's awesome. That's that's so good. Now. Um, Sarah, um, someone did ask, you know, I'm, or has said, I'm really excited to see how your brand devolves and, um, and I looked at that and went, oh, this just means you've got so many more things to play with to be able to share like recipes and stuff.
Eggs and yogurt and things like that. So has that been quite like, I know you've been cooking this stuff for your, um, family anyway, for the, you know, the meals that you, um, that you cook, but has it sort of opened you up a little bit more in your recipe development space?
Sarah: Yeah. And, and I also got a comment the other day from somebody, no disrespect, but saying stop using so much cheese cuz it's too expensive.
I was like, okay, thank you for your feedback. But this was interesting to me [00:45:00] because when I was. Plant based to make a vegan cheese is like probably one of the most expensive things that you can do out of your pantry. Like it's heavy, cashew based most often expensive ingredients, you know, and then obviously the time and the preparation, and then if it doesn't work out, you've gotta start from scratch versus buying, you know, an organic piece of locally made cheese or as local as you can supporting a business.
Um, Really. Yeah. You know, if you, if you weigh it up, so whilst I get it, yeah. The dollar price in the supermarket seems high. When you factor in all the other things that have to happen to try and replicate or make a vegan cheese. I think actually it's more economical to buy the real deal, but yeah, I guess less time in the kitchen to reach a desired result.
Yes. Um, by using animal products, [00:46:00] And, you know, scrambling an egg is much faster than making scrambled tofu and. You're not as hungry afterwards as well or gassy, actually, that is a, a big one that, you know, people probably don't touch on as much, but I was speaking to my daughter the other day and I said, have you noticed how much less I fart now?
like, just never, it's just not happening. And she's like, yeah. Um, When you're plant based. And again, you know, a lot of the plant foods that perhaps I was eating weren't suitable for me. Yeah. Yeah. And without knowing that, um, you know, your digestive system and subsequently your gas or, or lack of is a good indication to, for things, how they're moving through.
Right. So I, I obviously had a lot of stuff that was just sitting. Too high in fiber or whatever, it was just undigested and fermenting in my gut, call it, causing all this gas and, you know, bloating and, and discomfort. [00:47:00] Whereas now I. It's so rare. Yeah. Yeah. And, but of course you don't notice until you experience the change, how different you can feel and that's it.
Right. Um, so your gas is important to know no, totally,
Mikki: totally. Um, and what has been your favorite meal to date then? Over the last six weeks? You obviously eggs.
Sarah: Yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I'm having them poached. I'm having them fried. I'm having them boiled. I'm having them scrambled. Yeah. And bakes.
Yeah. And, and a fantastic brand that wasn't around, you know, prior to me being plant based. So really grateful for that and loving them, uh, That's that's the main one. Yeah. At the moment. So you haven't haven't have bit of fish salmon. Yeah. No first
Mikki: light Wago steak yet.
Sarah: There has been a bit. Yeah. Oh, that's good.
Love that. Love that. A few little bits. I watched, um, somebody, a, a gorgeous follower, [00:48:00] uh, sent me a Ted talk of the couple from Tao beef. Oh yes. That I think yeah. Supply to not first light, but harmony. Oh yeah. Nice. So they're one of the supplies to harmony. Yeah. And their story was. Uh, really, really fantastic.
And of course I would never have entertained the idea of watching. When I was, um, when I was plant based, but yeah, really lovely couple based down in Tao, in, um, fantastic practices of regenerative farming. Yeah. And, you know, working with the water quality, the whole thing, you know, just so thoughtful. Uh, so I have had some of there, so that was harmony.
Yeah. Not first light, so bigger pattern, but.
Mikki: Um, um, and I think Sarah, you are, you know, you can take all the supplements under the sun. This is for anyone really, but there are things like cholesterol, colon creatine. A bunch of nutrients that are just basically unavailable in plants. And I think those are the things which you can't really fill in the [00:49:00] gaps as easily.
And some people genetically are absolutely fine, you know, like their bodies run really well without having to have this sort of supply of that stuff. But. You know, as evidenced by your experience and, and possibly a lot of others, when you get the opportunity to reintroduce and know how good you can feel like, I think that's, that's awesome.
And, um, as a, particularly as a nutritionist, like, I really appreciate people like you out there sharing your story, just to raise awareness that what is considered healthy isn't necessarily healthy, I suppose. Um,
Sarah: Well, it's such a, it's such a difficult word, isn't it? Because what's healthy for me may not be healthy for you or my daughter, or, um, so it.
Yeah, it's so difficult. I think there's these like, you know, boxes and, and passages that we feel we have to be put in and go down to, to fit certain criteria. But actually there is no rules [00:50:00] when it comes to you and. And how you feel that there should be no rules and yeah, it's just a, a process of discovery.
Isn't it? Because what I'm eating now may not work for me when I'm 60 years old or, you know, there may need to be constant evolution of, of how I eat and, um, different ages and stages. Yeah. So there's, there's no right or wrong way. And I think there's, again, through social media or, or, you know, various different platforms that there's good food, bad food.
Well, You know what, there's a guy on Instagram that says a, um, a happy donut is better than a sad salad. oh, I love it. You know, because it's all about, it's all about your thought process around the food. Yeah. If, and that's why it was really important for me to make peace with the decision of including animal products.
Because I knew that if I sat down to a plate of eggs or steak or fish or whatever it was and felt guilty and bad about what I was doing, then that's just as harmful as staying in [00:51:00] that. You know, it's um, yeah, it's, it's all in our
heads,
Mikki: so, well, if nothing else, digestion does start in the brain. So you're absolutely right.
Having feeling good about what you're doing. I think it absolutely is the first step to your body, then being able to utilize those nutrients. Sarah, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. My pleasure. Appreciate, thank you for having me. Um, can you tell us where people can find you.
Sarah: So Instagram is pretty much where I live and in terms of, you know, finding content and what I do, sharing what I do.
And that is Sarah Tanner NZ. Uh, yeah, so I post pretty much every day, whether it's a recipe or some such other little life thing.
Mikki: I love it. And your feed is amazing. Your photos are beautiful, your recipes look delicious, and I also really love your sort of thoughts around life as well. Like it. Oh, thank you.
It really resonates with me. So, um, thank you, Sarah. Enjoy the [00:52:00] rest of your day.
Sarah: You too. Thanks so much.