Transcript generarated using AI transcription services, errors may occur. Please contact Mikki for any clarification

00:10
Hey everyone, it's Mikki here, you're listening to another mini Mikkipedia episode and this week I want to talk about, well, one of my favourite topics which is protein in the context of fat loss, which would probably be my other favourite topic. However, what I really want to specifically talk about today is more about balancing the somewhat competing or maybe not competing but we sort of think they are, the elements

00:39
fasting and using time restricted eating for a fat loss perspective and getting in enough protein to support your body composition goals because they can appear at odds but it doesn't have to be that way. So if we consider what the actual overarching goal is why you're doing time restricted eating in the first place then you can kind of see that there are strategies with which you could

01:08
do a form of time restricted eating but not necessarily impact negatively on your protein goals. So firstly, let's define if you like, you know, time restricted eating, which is otherwise also called intermittent fasting, though, if you still listen to some people talk about it, they generally sort of put intermittent fasting in the box of a prolonged fast. So you intermittently do a prolonged fast, you know, two to three days fasting, whereas

01:36
time restricted eating is, as the name suggests, eating within a shortened or a restricted time window, which might be anywhere from having a 12 hour window of eating and then you don't eat across another 12 hour window. Or something which is a bit popular would be the 16-8 protocol, where you fast for 16 hours and you eat in an eight hour eating window. So one thing I suppose to

02:06
consider is that research has found that the average person is probably eating over 15 hours a day. They sort of kick off their day with a flat white or a coffee with cream. They might have something else with it at sort of six or six thirty in the morning on their way to work or whatever. And then they're finishing their evening eight thirty nine o'clock with a cup of tea and a ginger nut biscuit or a couple of pieces of dark chocolate.

02:34
That is a general eating pattern of sort of the majority of the sort of Western population. And this is US data, but there is no reason to think that New Zealand is any different, particularly if I'm thinking about people who I talk to in my clinic. And obviously, using time restricted eating as a weight loss strategy could be very successful. It is pulling on one of the levers of fat loss that allows you to restrict calories. And of course, the other levers of fat loss would be restricting

03:03
macronutrients or foods like going on a low carb, no carb diet, or it would be specifically focusing on calorie reduction and not necessarily considering other things like the type of foods you're eating or the time with which you're eating it because overall you're in a calorie deficit. And certainly, so from that weight loss perspective, you can certainly lose weight and improve body composition by doing a time restricted eating protocol.

03:31
Research though has also found that outside of losing body fat, you can enhance insulin sensitivity and you can reduce inflammation and oxidative stress and have better blood sugar control. And we've seen these in human trials where weight loss wasn't an outcome and it didn't actually feature, but they had these improvements in the other metabolic markers. So I'm certainly, we really do have to be cognizant of that.

04:00
time restricted eating is also beneficial for anyone who has gut related issues, because it allows that inflammation to settle down in the gut because it's not constantly doing work. And so certainly if you have digestive issues, inflammatory bowel disorders or irritable bowel syndrome, having periods of time and restricting the time with which you eat could be a part of a good strategy to help improve that. However,

04:29
It's worth noting as well is that many people use time restricted eating as a weight loss strategy then also say, well, I know this is also good for autophagy as well. The thing is, is that time restricted eating doesn't change autophagy. Now just to sort of define autophagy, it is a cellular process that breaks down and recycles damaged cells and cellular components.

04:57
and it allows the body to maintain cellular health and function. And this process does play a crucial role in preventing diseases, such as neurodegenerative disorders, cancer and cardiovascular diseases. The thing with autophagy is it occurs naturally at basal levels. This is not a switch that you turn off or turn on. It is something that is occurring all of the time, yet its activity can be amplified through fasting.

05:25
but not all fasting protocols are equal in their ability to stimulate autophagy. So whilst you can absolutely use fasting for autophagy, the 16-8 approach may not be as effective and probably isn't effective in stimulating autophagy as another benefit for doing it. And certainly not as beneficial as a prolonged fasting period. Not that I'm suggesting that that's what you need to do, but just to delineate between the two. And I mean, part of the reason for this is that

05:55
Autophagy is a complex process and it is regulated by multiple factors. One of the main triggers for autophagy is a depletion of nutrients, particularly amino acids, which occurs during fasting. Studies do suggest autophagy may be significantly enhanced after 24 to 48 hours of fasting, with the effects becoming more pronounced as the fasting duration increases. That 16-hour fasting window

06:22
just isn't long enough to deplete nutrient levels sufficiently to stimulate autophagy to a significant degree. And there are individual variables that can change the outcomes of a fasting period for any one particular person. And this might be down to genetics, metabolic health, and other factors. So you just never know. Some people may be able to stimulate some autophagy at sort of 22, 24 hours.

06:50
Some people may need several days. And there's no definitive target for autophagy either. It is not something that we can easily measure. So we don't know the optimal level of autophagy, which is going to be enhanced that we should all be striving or aiming for when we're looking at fasting protocols. The research in this is still really in its early stages and understanding those optimal levels of autophagy is quite limited. And...

07:19
There is some evidence of course that enhanced autophagy can have beneficial effects on cellular health, disease prevention and lifespan. Excessive autophagy can have detrimental effects. It can lead to increased cellular damage and contribute to the development of some certain diseases as well, such as cancer. So it's not just, it's not a very, I would say that if you were looking at a fasting protocol for autophagy reasons, 16-8 is not where you want it.

07:48
potentially the benefits might have been over-exaggerated if you're out there on social media, listening to people tell you that you can enhance autophagy within this particular fasting protocol. And even if you consider how it is measured, it's primarily measured in research settings, and it might be measured through molecular markers. So researchers can assess the levels of specific proteins that are associated with the process, electron microscopy,

08:17
which allows for direct visualization of autophagic structures, such as autophasomes and autolysomes within the cells. And they can do this and assess the number and morphology of these structures, providing insights into the autophagy process. Might also use fluorescence microscopy, using fluorescent tags to label these autophagy-related proteins. And genetic tools, such as RNA interference or CRISPR.

08:46
to alter the expression of autophagy-related genes in cells or model organisms. But as you can see, these are not something you can just go to the pharmacy and pick up kits like this. They are mainly used in research settings and that research is emerging and much of it has been done in the rodent model. And there are just areas where a mouse is very different from a human. So

09:10
Researchers are continually working to develop more reliable, accurate, and accessible methods for assessing autophagy in various contexts, but it is not promising that we're going to see the 16-8 protocol as the way to enhance autophagy. So I just want to be quite clear on that. So then, when I think about time-restricted eating and doing a 16-8 protocol,

09:37
To my mind, the one thing that I think should be on your mind, well, it certainly is not autophagy, but it's psychopenia. Because this is where the balance lies. Like, yes, from a fat loss perspective, 16-8 can be really beneficial. And if you are able to meet your nutrient requirements, you're able to recover well by eating within that eight hour window, your protein requirements are checked off, recovery is really good. Your body composition is improving.

10:06
your hormones, your sleep, your appetite regulation is great. No issues, right? But that is seldom the case. And if you are restricting your food to within an eight hour window, it just makes it so much more difficult to get your protein requirements in. And you guys know that I am all about protein. And if we think about psychopenia, that is the health issue that...

10:31
that ideally we would all be trying to avoid as we head into our older years or our twilight years. And psychopenia is a progressive and generalized loss of skeletal muscle mass strength and function that occurs with aging. And I had a great discussion with Dr. Brendan Egan about psychopenia on the podcast some a couple of months ago now. And it is the

10:58
primary contributor to frailty, disability, and a decline in overall health in older adults. And there are two stimulus with which we can rely on to help minimize the risk of developing sarcopenia. One of them is obviously strength training and putting that stimulus and that load on our bone as we age. Walking, obviously, weight bearing exercises is brilliant, but the other one is protein.

11:26
We want to avoid psychopenia because we want to reduce the risks associated with falls and fractures and maintaining muscle mass and strength can help improve balance and coordination. We want to have improved mobility and independence as we get older. We don't want to have to rely on other people. We want to preserve muscle function so we can maintain these active daily living activities such as carrying groceries and walking upstairs.

11:55
Also, don't you want to go hiking? Don't you want to continue to make gains as much as you can in the gym? You know, play with your grandkids. Like all of these things are so important. Avoiding psychopenia is key to this. Enhance quality of life, because we are also then able to have a better quality of life. We're able to engage in social activities and maintain self-sufficiency and relationships. There's better management of chronic conditions, such as a reduced risk of chronic diseases, like type diabetes.

12:24
type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and osteoporosis. Improved metabolic health, because muscle tissue is metabolically active and it's a reservoir for glucose. It protects our cells from those elevated sugar levels that increases oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage. We need muscles to help protect ourselves from elevated blood glucose. So instead of worrying about chasing autophagy,

12:53
we need to be worrying more about fighting off psychopenia. And this is where I feel like the 16-8 protocol doesn't really serve us properly. So here's my advice. In order to improve both body composition and minimize the detrimental effect of lack of protein, is really focus and dial in your protein intake, not just within that eating window, but put some protein snacks in outside of that eating window.

13:22
If you were just doing it from a body composition perspective, then that additional 150 to 200 calories outside that eating window really won't make that much difference. And in my experience, people can regulate their appetite better. So they actually make better food decisions within the eating window if they have something outside of their eating window. And of course, yes, it does break the fast. But

13:50
If your main goal is body composition and you're just talking about autophagy and thinking, oh, but it's so good for my circadian rhythm as well, what a bonus. Well, at the heart of it, it's not making a huge difference in that realm anyway. So instead, focus on what you can do to improve your body composition. From a fat loss perspective, you need about 2 to 2.4 grams per kilogram body weight of protein.

14:15
in order to help preserve bone mass and preserve muscle mass. And if you only have eight hours of the day to be able to do that, then you will often leave yourself short. And that's not what you want to do. So put in like a protein shake that might have a sort of minimum 30 grams of protein in it. And if you make it up with water or almond milk, I say that and not milk because milk probably will then just add more calories that you don't necessarily need, right?

14:45
So if you have the protein shake, and that's like three scoops of New Zest or one and a half serves of Go Good or Balance, then you have sort of ticked off that early window where we know it's important to get that signal to the brain that you've got protein on board. Because that's what it comes down to. Your brain also needs amino acids, not only to stimulate muscle protein synthesis and offset

15:14
any potential negative impact of low protein, but you also want those amino acids to help balance neurotransmitters across the day. You want to ensure that you've got enough on board to help with hormone creation, enzyme action in our antioxidant and anti-inflammatory pathways. We want to be able to have good water balance. We want to provide the substrate for...

15:39
all of our physiological processes, and that's what protein is able to do. And research tells us we do need these two time points. Now look, this is just an idea. Like you could say, well look, Mickey, can I not just do that within my eating window? And yes, you can actually, but you just wanna make sure that you do. And then my best advice is, could you take that 16-8 window and extend it slightly? Maybe it's 14-10 or something like that. And then make sure you're getting that input of protein

16:09
and you're getting, I said 30 grams, but you'd need about 50 grams of protein. So you really wanna make sure you've got that to help with that muscle protein synthesis response. Because the next time you want that is at the end of your eating window. You want that end-to-end signaling, which is such an important piece of this puzzle, needs at least five hours in between times to effectively work and stimulate that muscle protein synthesis response.

16:37
So you need a bowl of protein at the start of the day and a bowl of protein at the end of the day. And I guess just from a practical perspective, I know so many people actually white knuckle it through to lunch, to their first meal, and then they under eat protein. And then they graze across the course of the morning. Whereas if you did do what I suggested, popped in a protein snack in the morning, particularly if you exercise, I think that's very important, then that'll just help with recovery. It'll help with that muscle protein synthesis response.

17:06
and it'll help your body get the signals it needs to protect muscle and bone. And that should be our focus, not autophagy. Alrighty, so that's my mini-Micipedia on a Monday. And I would also like to tell you that I have a free live virtual event that runs from 14 May through to 17 of May, and it is called the Anatomy of Fat Loss. I will have a link in the show notes to that where we, where this stuff,

17:35
absolutely comes up because time restricted eating is a lever and I want you to be able to use it to the best of your ability and get the body composition goals that you are after. But there are so many other things where people just get lost and they just do not know. It's like information overwhelm. They don't know where to start. I want to help you start at the very least, obviously. So this is happening Sunday, 14th of May. There'll be a link in the show notes. You sign up. All the information will be delivered there.

18:04
It'll tell you everything. So thanks for listening guys. You have a great rest of your day and week. I look forward to seeing you actually, if you're going to be, if you're going to join us for the live event, virtual live event, because that'll be happening the Sunday after this comes out. So yeah, anyway, you can shoot me a DM over on Instagram or Twitter at Mickey Willidon. Hit me up on Facebook.

18:33
in the comments section at mckewillardinnutrition or head to my website mckewillardinn.com and in addition to the free live virtual event you can pop your name on the waitlist for Mondays Matter because that is also coming up. It is all happening basically. So have a great week. See you later.