00:03
Welcome, hi, I'm Mikki and this is Mikkipedia, where I sit down and chat to doctors, professors, athletes, practitioners, and experts in their fields related to health, nutrition, fitness, and wellbeing, and I'm delighted that you're here.

00:24
Hey everyone, it's Milki here. You're listening to Mikkipedia, and this week on the podcast, I speak to Australian naturopath and sports nutritionist, Kira Sutherland, all about nutrition for teenagers. Such a great conversation. Kara and I talk about some of the misconceptions that parents and coaches might have around the importance of sports nutrition for kids of this age, and we also discuss

00:51
Somatipes, so that's kind of body type and body shape and how this might play into the expectations of parents and kids for their performance goals. Blood biomarkers and what this might tell us about health and performance. We talk practical tips as to how to help kids meet their nutrition goals when they're busy lives, leave them with little time to think about what to eat and of course talk about foods and fussy children and...

01:18
Kira really shares a lot of her knowledge, which was really cool. And we just have such a great conversation because she's such a neat person. So Kira Sutherland is an Australian naturopath and sports nutritionist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. Her focus in performance nutrition led her to be the first naturopath in Australia to undertake the International Olympic Committee's diploma in sports nutrition.

01:46
She is also the 2019 winner of the Biocerticals Integrative Medicine Award for Excellence in Practice, Nutrition Dietetics. Kira divides her time between clinical practice, university lecturing, speaking at conferences around the world, and mentoring practitioners of complementary medicine in the application of holistic sports nutrition. And in her free time, she competes in endurance sport and skis with her family as much as possible.

02:16
I will put links to Kera in the show notes and you can catch her online at kerasutherland.com.au or over on Instagram and Facebook at uberhealth. That's uber as in u-b-e-r health. Kera had it first by the way. And she shares so much great information over there. And just to add a little side note.

02:44
Kara is very good friends with Lara Brydon and they do a lot of joint events together which is super cool. It just goes to show just the caliber of her work. She's amazing Kara and I think you're really going to love this conversation. Just a reminder though before we crack on into it, the best way to support the podcast is to hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast listening platform. That increases the visibility of the podcast out there.

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in amongst the literally thousands of other podcasts. So more people get the opportunity to learn from the guests that I have on the show like Kara. All right team, enjoy the conversation that I have with Kara Sutherland.

03:33
Kira, thank you so much for taking time to speak to me this afternoon. Wealth of information, very good friend of my friend Lara. And I think that we're going to have such a great conversation about sports nutrition, teen athletes, and how you approach different topics. And of course, as I said to you, we've got those bullet points down. You're based in Sydney, sports nutritionist naturopath. Yes.

04:03
What been a practitioner for 28 years? Yeah. So, so I've been a naturopath and nutritionist for 28 years. So I don't come from the dietetics background. I came, I'm a bachelor of health science and then natural medicine. So I come from that natural medicine side. And then I did post-grad study with international Olympic committee doing sports nutrition and yeah, 28 years of clinical practice. I think we're on now. I.

04:30
You almost want to say 30 and then I'm a little bit like, oh God, that sounds really old too. I'll just keep it at 28 for a while. No, I love it. And what about your own experience in sports? And I mean, I understand you're also a lifelong athlete. Is that how you found yourself in the sports nutrition space? Yeah, so I did every sport under the sun growing up. I was one of those really sporty girls at school. And then...

04:58
Um, when I graduated as a naturopath nutritionist, both both degrees, um, I was, my clinic was inside of a gym. And so that just suited me fine. And, you know, you end up knowing everybody working there and then they all your, you know, all the PTs refer all their clients to you. And then I got back in, I'd had a bit of a

05:23
stress what was going on. I was just really stressed in life. When I started, I became like a forest gump for a while. I started like running and running and, and more than normal, more than I used to. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, well it's time to do marathons. And then half my clients were triathletes and like, it's time to do an Ironman. And I was like, no, no. And yeah, so I got, you know, got the bug, fell in love with ultra long distance events. And that really was

05:51
where the sports nutrition started marrying up with me as a practitioner. And that's years ago now. Yeah, nice. So this is a slight tangent and not really related to teenage athletes, but I'm really interested to know what your thoughts are. So me and one of my colleagues and one of my besties, Karen Zinn, and you might be familiar. Yeah, I know who she is. I've never met her, but I know who she is. Oh, you would love her. We would go to our nutrition and dietetics

06:21
And the sports nutrition guidelines would be up there for what we should be feeding our athletes at different tiers of activity, if you like. And it almost felt like in amongst the practitioners, it was almost this unspoken thing that that's what the guidelines were. We never recommended our clients follow to that extreme. Is that just some sort of Kiwi thing? No.

06:47
No, but I can't speak for the dieticians in Australia by any means, because that's not really my community. But I do know I have a lot of friends who are dieticians. Yeah, I mean, there's the guy, you know, the way I teach students to there's the guidelines, but they're not rules. And there's a big difference. And I think we get that stuck in our head of, oh, my God, that's the rules. But I, I definitely, maybe because I came from more of an alternative background to begin with, I'm was always willing

07:16
hey, that might be a guideline, but that doesn't seem to fit what everybody's needing. So let's go outside of those, let's play outside of those rules a little bit and see what happens. Yeah, I definitely feel like that. Yeah, yeah. And I love the way that you said that. And it's, you know, even if you look at the literature in and around, and carbs are a great example, like these guidelines for what, you know, endurance athletes should eat, yet habitually, athletes are...

07:44
always falling short. Like, if you look at like, I think Burke had some studies, she did like maybe even 15 years ago now, and you know, the elite of the elite were eating maybe five to seven grams per kg, yet they were in the category that would sort of have them eat, you know. Eight to 12. Yeah, eight to 12, you know? And how much would have eaten more? How much would have that sort of improved their sort of performance and recovery? Or would eating that then have sort of

08:14
lift other nutrients falling short, which is where I always come at from the opportunity cost. Yeah, and also, you know, again, it's getting a lot better in the last decade, but who was that research done on? And I know you lecture on this and talk about this and is that research based on male-female combined? Or was that mainly on male? If you look at the history of, you know, this is one of my favorite areas, history of male testing rather than female. And

08:42
And I'm always, and then I'm a big fan of looking at body types. And I know, you know, there's not enormous research, but I definitely, like I'm almost five foot 10 and I'm built like a Viking, you know, I could have been a great shield maiden, right? Your typical little tiny aerobics instructor build, you go through your years of clinical practice and it's like my body type.

09:08
deals with macros differently to other body types or, you know, I might put on weight more easily than the other body types, but I can put on muscle really easy. And I just kind of, I've always got that in my background, that individuality of everybody and yeah, guidelines are amazing that they're there and we have that research, but I think we always need to edit that for what's working for us. If I followed some of those guidelines, I would probably be 10 kilos overweight. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.

09:37
My husband, who's a very fast endurance athlete, age grouper, but kind of could have been pro, but probably would never have gone anywhere. So we decided to have a regular career. He fits perfectly in those guidelines. He's like your beautiful 72 kilo, five foot nine male that just fits all those guidelines perfect. And I can see it with him. Yeah. Well, do you know, it's interesting. So a couple of things on that. I'm fascinated by the

10:07
of information and literature. I think that you're right, there isn't, to my understanding, there's not a lot of scientific basis for it, but it doesn't mean that we can dismiss just the lived experience and what you see in your clients and how that looks. I know that I actually wanted to talk to you about it in relation to our topic today, teenage sports nutrition. But I would actually, if you don't mind, can we just have a little chat about that body type stuff?

10:37
So can you just sort of outline the different sort of, I guess, body types if you like, and how would that impact on our requirements? Yeah, well, I mean, in science, I mean, we can study it. There is, you know, a breakdown of it, but it's kind of theory. I mean, even when you're reading the research on it, they're like, there's these theories, and we're not sure if these theories are correct or not, but in general, we break body types down to mesomorph, actomorph, and endomorph.

11:03
if we're going into the science of it, but then a lot of people actually take those and you've got to look at, we're not like, we're not all a pure one body type or a combination of them. And some people are kind of an endo-ecto or, you know, you've got your differences between them. And oh, my gosh, what can I say about them? They are, I just find it fascinating to look at the theories of how...

11:32
different body types respond to different types of training or they respond to different levels of macronutrients and how some body types thrive on, you know, really high amounts of protein all the time versus other body types hypothetically have slower, longer digestive systems that can actually absorb their macronutrients better. And so they can utilize macros.

11:59
probably more efficiently, because their digestion's slower. And again, how are we ever gonna clinically trial this? We're not. Like it's, I just think there's so much, I love science, I love the research, but there's so much we can't do in a scientific model to understand what's going on with people. So that's where, you know, I have that two sides to me of what I see versus what you learn. Yeah, and I love that. And it's, you know, it's still.

12:28
Evidence, like anecdotal stories is still evidence for or against a particular way of sort of, I don't know, approaching a situation or problem solving and things like that is how I sort of think about it as well. Yeah, so I look at a lot of, yeah, I just kind of assess whether, yeah, assessing, you know, I read a book, let me back up. I read a book 25, 30 years ago, which is, again,

12:55
going to not be very scientific, but on Ayurvedic medicine. And Ayurveda goes into body types. Yes. Ayurveda goes into, you know, and we seem comfortable looking at those. And again, maybe I'm not going very sciencey here for you. But Ayurvedic body types, there's vata, pitta, and kapha. And they line up perfectly with ecto, endo, and meso. They literally line up. Well, almost perfectly. And

13:20
I read this whole book that looked at, and so maybe this is where my brain went with it and why I've always looked at it. It was talking about when you look at, especially children or teens, because I will flip into this topic, it was talking about, you got your tall, really skinny, bony, or really tiny, like tiny bony people, which is a Vata body type, like little bird-like body build. We have...

13:50
Oh my gosh, where was this book going? It was just about, you know, we have our power sports build, we have our more endurance build, we have our more, you know, fast twitch fiber builds for sprinting. And it was talking about with children, how a lot of times, it was an American book talking about how we assess kids' sports ability.

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but it's really only for the fast twitch kind of sprinting kids and aerobic and Durancy kind of kids. Whereas our strength kids get told to run in America, you have to run a mile by a certain speed. And his, this whole book was by a guy named Dr. John Dilliard. And it was a, it was called body, body mind sport. And it, and it was the first time I ever, you know, got introduced to the idea that

14:39
we are trying to assess everybody under one model. And then we're wondering why these kids fail and they're not motivated in sport. He's like, but if you put them in power sport, you put them into baseball or cricket, if you're in Southern hemisphere or, you know, shot put or, you know, javelin or just strength sports, lifting weights, this other body type is gonna excel. And we don't use that.

15:05
assessment with kids. You know, we make them all do the same sports and then wonder why these kids drop out of sports, they feel so bad about it, because they're not going to run their how many kilometers at a certain speed, if they're a power bodybuilding. And so it was all about steering kids into sport.

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that's going to fit their body type so they can excel. So they can all feel amazing and actually achieve because who doesn't want to achieve? Yeah, totally. Especially in those young years where egos getting, you know, how they feel about themselves and their body is going to get created. It's like, like I'm almost five foot 10. So I have a daughter and I know she's not going to be five foot two. Like I just, you know, that's genetic, you know, known.

15:53
So it's like, okay, you wanna do gymnastics when you're a little girl. That's great, let's do gymnastics, but then let's, cause you know, I'm not gonna stop her, but gymnastics or ballet, like every little girl, not every little girl, but lots of little girls wanna do ballet. So she did ballet for a year or two, and I'm like, well, let's move to kind of modern or hip hop or like, I'm not gonna let her stay in. I don't want her to get her heart set on something that she's gonna have the absolute incorrect body type for because that's where it leads down the road

16:23
low energy availability or eating disorders or you know, yeah, she's trying to fit a mold that she just It's not gonna not gonna yeah gonna happen. Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's like let's play basketball Let's do you know and so that book really You know, it's a layman's book, but it rocked my world that book in looking at how to make people

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feel good about their body type and their strengths rather than unless all fitting into the same mold, then it must be the same nutritionally, not just body types, right? Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did I go on too many topics there? No, no, no, no, it was great. And I loved how you sort of integrated that with Ayurvedic. I've always been fascinated by that whole sort of, a whole different way of thinking about nutrition. We got one class in that in my third year at university, and that was

17:15
And I thought, gosh, this is really interesting, but we very quickly moved on to something else. Yeah, I did Ayurveda for a whole year. I went after I had graduated, I went and did another year of study in that, just because I wanted to look at how we even look at different body types and giving them different foods and people that are very cold in nature versus hot and what we need differently. And I think, yeah, and again, it's not science, but.

17:44
Those theories have been there for thousands of years and it's fascinating to look at everybody's differences. Totally. And do you bring that into some of your practices well, Kira, like if it's not like sort of front and center, I imagine it would still be in your mind as you're talking to someone. It's always in the back of my mind. Yeah, yeah. Always. I think over the years, there's just so many layers of what you go and you're interested in and you study that come into play in the back. Yeah, yeah.

18:09
Not that I verbally talk about it all the time, but I do with teenagers. I will talk body types with teenagers because I think especially more, you know, most teenage boys that show up, one put on muscle, right? Like I don't tend to have a lot of weight loss teenage boys. Maybe that's just my area of what I'm working in. But again, all the teenage female athletes that show up, you know, there's always that stress over...

18:36
is their body shape and is their size right now working for their sport or not? Especially as they hit menstrual age or a couple of years into menstrual age and we talk body type all the time because I think it empowers them rather than them trying to jam themselves that into one hole that doesn't square peg around hole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally. So on that then, Keris, we sort of shift into that.

19:05
teenage sports nutrition conversation. What are some of the challenges that you see teenagers for in your practice or their parents have when trying to balance that sort of sport, school, social, parents' expectations, their expectations, all of that?

19:25
Big challenges, yeah, making sure they're having a menstrual cycle if you're dealing with females, making sure that's actually happening, they're eating enough and not falling into that low energy availability. What are the challenges? Enough time to eat or enough time, pre-training eating habits, post-training eating habits or lack of, I think that's, the challenges, yeah.

19:53
See, so, cause I, when I chat to teenagers, it's the pattern I see quite a bit is that they are, they are balanced, like oftentimes those who are excelling in sport, it's not the only thing they're doing. They're excelling in music and, or in sort of theater or something like that. So the extracurricular time is pulled both in the morning and post-school and they're not getting home till late. They're having an up and go in between sport practice.

20:23
and they're starving and grabbing a pie at the, you know, like it's all of those things. Yeah. And it's funny, you know, when you study sports nutrition, there's whole chapters or lectures they do on like the traveling athlete and talking about, you know, food logistics. And I'm always like, you know, adults are pretty good at figuring out their food logistics, but you really see where that comes into play with those teenagers. A, they have that limited range of what they want to eat.

20:49
There's also that food groups that the parents don't want them to eat that they do want to eat. There's always that, I think that's a logistic is that compromise between what all their friends are eating versus what you're trying to get them to eat. But yeah, I find the timing and lack of time really the biggest logistic of what are you going to eat while you're in the car or, you know, how important is, you know, for recovery eating? I'm, you know, as probably every sports nutritionist is, I'm...

21:16
so vicious about eating windows after training so that they can train twice a day and not feel terrible. And yeah, I think that's probably one of my biggest, biggest hurdles. But I also find teenagers, we underrate them and we underrate their desire to learn because I find as soon as you get them hooked, they want to, you know, they want to know everything, even though they don't want to know it from their parents. Yes, such a good call. And also,

21:45
I don't know about you, but I chat to a lot who have gotten, as far as they've gotten, almost on natural ability and skill alone. The conversation that we often have is, when you get to this certain point, you're amazing at what you do. To get to that next level is going to require more input. So it does matter what you eat and when you eat and being organized around that. Yeah. Am I done?

22:13
Yeah, I just don't find they take a lot of convincing. I think maybe once they've gotten convinced to come see you and they realize you're not some weird, well, probably I'm weird, but once they realize you're okay and you have their channel, you're not talking to them like they're a little kid, you're talking to them like an adult or a late teen and you give them credit for how much they know, I find once you get that door open,

22:39
They're so hungry for that information. And they're probably some of the best clients at making change, because they see so quickly the difference. Because often, you know, they're vastly under hydrating. And so, you know, you get the hydration right, and they feel amazing, or just eating after training, because they don't. They, you know, get out of the pool, and then it's two hours before they get to breakfast, and you're like, I'm gonna make you feel so much better. Like, so much better. And they, you know.

23:06
I find them a very motivated group. I think they get dismissed as being unmotivated and I disagree. That's awesome. And what about coaches, Kara? Like how bought into the process are coaches in your experience? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, a lot of my teens come from coach referrals. So that's, you know, if it's come from there, it's really easy. Being a naturopath nutritionist rather than a dietician, I'm not in Australia.

23:36
The team sports is really, that's dietetics that really has that area. So I'm not actually dealing with as many coaches as probably a lot of other sports nutritionists, but I don't tend to have problems if I, yeah, send something through and just say, can you let them have a break here or please let them drink. Probably the hardest one is swim coaches, letting them drink something before the next set happens, right? They're like, I don't have any time to drink, you know.

24:04
I'm like, surely if you ask them, they will take five seconds to drink from your water bottle. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Yeah, but no, I don't know. Do you have troubles getting coaches on board? You just hear a lot of stories from athletes or their parents that the coaches just dismiss nutrition out of hand. It's not an important piece of the puzzle. However, this is different to you, because if I was only ever dealing with a single...

24:33
So individual sports, I don't think that that would be the case. And I certainly haven't had that from that sort of avenue, but it's much more in that it's interesting in that sort of team based sports. It's not uncommon. I'm not saying it happens all of the time, but it's not uncommon for nutrition to sort of be a bit dismissed actually. Yeah, I know. And now that you said that, I can see it. And I do work with team.

24:55
athletes, but they're the ones that seek me out individually. Like as a naturopath, I often get the people who also need, they're having immune system issues or they're having something else that they're seeking, you know, external support. So, yeah, yeah. I've heard some funny stories about coaches. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, so Kara, what are some of your tips then to, like, cause I mean, I guess parents are, they're not,

25:23
between a rock and a hard place. So obviously the team is on board which is great. And timing and the priority prioritizing, I'm sorry, the sort of time it might take to prepare food is obviously an necessary part of this process. What kind of tips and tricks do you give your parents to help them sort of navigate that? Look, I think sometimes with parents it's also discussing perfect nutrition because sometimes I get these parents who are more obsessed with, you know,

25:52
perfect eating than the teenager is. And you go, I'm, I do have to have that chat and that compromise with the parent and the teen. And the teens, yeah, that's always interesting. Not trying to undermine the parent either, but finding that level. Tips and tricks. I'm a huge fan of really healthy packaged bars, like healthy bars or great Bill Tong, or like convenience foods. I've got a.

26:19
basket full of convenience foods to show them to try different, you know, whether it's collagen bar or, you know, just good ratio bars for different times of the day. So I'm a big bars, doing smoothies. We talk a lot about, you know, prepping everything and putting everything in the freezer half already done. So it's like a one minute thing. Um, what else are my tips and tricks? Can we like buy?

26:45
Well, I'm interested to know whether, are there any bars on the supermarket shelves, like Muesli Bar bars that you would recommend that would be fine for you? Are they more that sort of, because I know that collagen bar, or at least I think I do, the Chief collagen bar. Yeah, the Chief collagen bar is beautiful. Look, I, oh my gosh, in Australia we have a brand called Carmen's Muesli Bar. It can be, you know, in Muesli bars. I don't, people usually show up on too much.

27:13
oats and muesli in my opinion. I think oats is such a default for athletes. And so I'm off. Yeah. If they want muesli bars, I am looking for less added sugar. And I mean, the right ratio is for post-training, but I'm moving them off of cheap supermarket bars, at least into like the ones made by the supermarket.

27:37
Oh my gosh, what do I, you know, I'll go for things like, I don't know if you even have bounce balls over there. They're actually, yeah. So again, you know, there's rice malt syrup in some of the, you know, these are higher carb, but again, if they need that after training. I'm a huge fan of nuts and seeds and dried fruit as a, you know, if people can't, if they need that high GI carb at that point.

28:06
bars. There's like a million bars. I'm always in the health food store, the supermarket, standing at those shelves and trying everything, but so much of it tastes like pure plastic. So. I know. I know. I tell you that though. However, I'm quite like- What applies to you, like? Well, I see from like the 1990s, I started getting into protein part of then. So anything beyond that tastes amazing in that protein realm. So I'm not a very good barometer. Like when people are like, does that taste good? I'm like-

28:35
Well, I think it does, but you need to ask someone else because I could probably eat almost anything. Eat pure plastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Bounce Balls, there's another brand, there's a couple brands that now mimic them that are probably Australian made. And again, Bounce Balls have plant-based ones and whey-based ones. And so you've got that variety for depending on what the person wants. Those are...

29:01
Probably, oh my God, I'm totally missing like five different types of bars. No, no, that's totally fine. I hand out a lot of recipes for making bars as well. I'm a big, here's a ball recipe or frittata, you know, like I do a lot of, I'm a really lazy cook, so I never hand over tricky recipes. Like I'm like that four to five ingredient cook. Yeah, yeah, no, I love it. That's, I'm the same. And I love doing things like telling them, like it's-

29:29
Kids are tricky because they are fussy, you know. But they just have to, I mean, I always encourage them to like try different things. And I'm like, what about cooked sausages? Or what about like meatballs or burger patties? Like, can we put these in your lunchbox that go along with the other things that you wanna be eating, you know? Healthy baked beans, like getting a low sugar healthy. We have some organic baked beans here that are great.

30:00
Um, no, these are, these are great baked potatoes with, you know, some meat added in. Um, I haven't had that many vegetarian teenagers lately, which is interesting. Oh, that is so, cause that went through a big phase for a while, but yeah, I'm a huge fan of, you know, eggs on the go. Yeah. Are you a protein powder person for your teens? Absolutely. Yeah. Same. Yeah. I don't, I consider protein powder a food.

30:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. And you get people showing up and they're like, well, I don't know. That's like, and I'm like, it's like a food, right? Yeah. Your body's going to deal with it like a food. It's just going to have digested already. And yeah, you know, as a naturopath, I get nervous with all the whey. So I will use, you know, pea proteins or pea and rice proteins whey. I will use collagen as a new favorite, just because I find so many people love it because it has no taste. Yes. I know you don't get as much.

30:55
bang for your buck in muscle growth in research between whey and collagen, but if they're gonna have it, that's the problem. Totally, totally, it all counts. There's that difference, yeah. Yeah, like I heard actually, I was online, someone was chatting about collagen because there was, yes, it's lower in leucine, but it's not like that's the only amino acid that we need. We need a full spectrum of that. I'm not sure about you, Kara. I use...

31:23
EAAs for my vegetarian or low protein eating people too. It kids also like it's like raspberry cordial basically the sort of the flavor and that can be a nice. Yeah. So to go alongside with with lunches and stuff. Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm a big protein powder fan just because people have struggled to get in enough. You know, they really do. What are your favorite brands then? Oh gosh. So um.

31:51
of protein powders. In Australia, the collagen I'm mainly using is by a company called Designs for Health. Do you have that over there? It's a practitioner only one here, but yeah. Yeah. So I think it's sold in some health food stores here. I'm not sure. Their head office is like two blocks from where I live as well. So it makes my life easy. So I use theirs or, oh my gosh, there's another really neutral organics.

32:19
is another brand that's really easy to get at the health food stores. As far as whey protein goes, oh my gosh, there's so many kinds. I can't even begin to list something. As far as pea protein powder goes, I go for new zest, clean lean protein, or a lot of raw Amazonia raw people show up with, they have a lot of different flavors and types. They do. They've got a mess of

32:49
Massive range. And I mean, I'm a fan of New Zest here as well. And we've got a brand called Go Good, and it's very, and it's got either whey protein, whey protein isolate, or pea protein. So they've got quite a range sort of, and it's not quite as sweet as some of the other ones, which I mean, to be fair, I've got a sweet tooth, so I don't mind the sweets. But I know not everyone does. Not the same, but it's interesting. I have a 16 year old as well, so I'm always trying to sneak protein powder into stuff.

33:19
She picks it in an instant. And so basically the only thing I get away with at the moment is collagen. Oh, nice. So that flavorless protein. Yeah. I even bought her some, I bought like a hot, she really loves hot chocolate. So I'm like trying to move her into the like the healthier, you know, more sports after dinner hot chocolate.

33:40
I just got her one the other day and she's like, that's a no, that just tastes like protein powder. I was like, oh darn. We were, so here, my stepson's 16 as well and he was brought up as a vegetarian and his dad was vegetarian for 27 years. But then after when we met and had been together a year, Baz started eating meat, has never looked back. Now.

34:01
I didn't influence, no, I did influence that, but it wasn't a, you know, course thing. Yeah, it's a choice. It's still his choice. Yeah. And so, but Finley revealed to us the other day that he's in fact been trying different meats and now he's really all into just trying different meats. And I'm like, so mate, like, are you a flexitarian now? And he says, no, no, I'm just trying. And I'm like, yeah, but you just ate like two pieces of KFC the other day. So is that just trying or is that like?

34:27
eating. But I think that his, it's less about us actually, because you know what teenagers are like, they're so influenced by their friends. Like this will be his friend group influencing him. And it would just honestly make my day if he started eating meat, because there's a whole heap of nutrition that is left on the floor when the teenager is vegetarian. Yes, yes. And I, as I was saying before, I haven't had a lot of those lately. And I'm, you know,

34:56
It goes through, it goes through phases. And if people want to be plant-based, they want to be plant-based, but there's just so much more you have to do to get behind that. And they, you know, like I always say to people that want to be vegetarian athletes, I'm like, that's an extra two hours a day. You're going to have to focus on your food. So yeah. And my daughter, after having COVID last year, we both lost all sense of taste and smell for like a month. Oh my gosh, it's a long time. Yeah, it was weird actually. And...

35:24
her tastes entirely changed for food after she had COVID. She now wants really different things and she's gone off fatty foods a little bit. And I'm like, what do you mean you don't want as much meat and you don't want as much? So, and it's like mentally something in her got a bit off about her. She's not trying to be vegetarian, but I found that I'm like, okay, that's fine. You just have, she was making like poached eggs last night and...

35:54
And I'm like, that's fine, I'm just gonna make this pork belly because I have defrosted it. And then of course she's standing over there, oh, I don't want any of that, that doesn't sound good. And then of course she's standing over the little tray, like eating it going, why is pork so good? Pork is so good. And that's, I think the other thing with teenagers is what they say they do and don't want versus when they actually hit hunger, what their body asks for. I'm finding...

36:23
more so as a trick for parents, I'm like, cook what you know they need to be having, yeah, kind of let them have what they say they want. But once you start making those things that you know they really need and it's there, they'll walk by and try it or have it. And then they'll go, oh, my body feels so much better. Yeah, yeah. Like again, I don't know why I'm talking about my child so much, but anyway, she went anemic after having COVID. She had really low iron levels. They're like, let's try pate.

36:52
And she's like, that sounds disgusting. I was like, why would I want to eat? And I'm like, no, you don't understand how good pate is. She's like a meat spread. You know, if you think about it, it's a meat spread. That's like horrifying for people, right? Liver spread. I don't even know if I said it was liver. I just said meat. And I bought a really good pate. Just one bite, one bite. She's completely addicted to pate. She was like, that's the best thing I've ever had in my life. Who invented this? Like...

37:20
Should we go through jars of pate every week now? Oh, that's fantastic. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. And there's this amazing pate in Australia. I don't know if they sell in New Zealand called Awfully Good. Oh, yes. Awfully Good. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And they make a salmon pate, a chicken pate. They do do a mushroom pate, but they make it with coconut oil. Oh, amazing. So it's dairy free for those who can't have dairy. And it's like...

37:48
best that I've ever had. We have Le Authentique, and I don't never say that right, you can tell because I'm quite slow when I say it. And it is similar, it's got very good, it's like either butter with the chicken or the duck, or they also have, I think it's called a risetta. And it's just the pork and, oh pork is another one they do, pork and duck, and then it's got no dairy in that one as well. And it's, it is.

38:16
just beautiful. And of course, yes, it is a higher end product, but there are people out there that, you know, that's no problem. I hate $20. I'm a type of pate, I do. It's a treat. I'm a bit like the French, you know, if you look at all the stats, you would have read them all, of how much money we spend on food per capita. And what the French spend, something like 52% of their income on food. Oh, wow. Whereas like most...

38:45
you know, Americans, Canadians, Australians, probably New Zealand. We're like down at like 25 or 30. I'm making up that stat right now. I don't know what we are, but substantially lower than the French. I was like, no, I'm French. I'm not, but I spend like a French person. I wonder whether it's anything to do with the cost of living, like because of course, here in New Zealand, we pay so much money for housing and petrol and, you know, all of that.

39:14
I just think it's priorities. I think it was more the paper I saw was just how we prioritize different things. But maybe you're right. We have to spend a lot more on cars and don't have as good a public transport or I don't know. I'm in Sydney, so yeah, I'm feeling that cost of living. Oh, I don't doubt it. I'm still spending 50% of my income on food. Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's preventative medicine, right, Nikki? Yeah, no, completely, actually. And on...

39:42
On food, nutrients, any particular nutrients that you see as a concern for teenage athletes, both like your males, females, you mentioned iron, that was not related really, but yeah, what do you see, Kiera? Yeah, so my biggest, the things I always worry about would be iron. And even in meat eating teenagers, I want to know about that, right? Because it's just going to...

40:10
They're going to feel terrible. Zinc, huge one, just because so, you know, they're trying to build muscle and that hormone, their hormone production's going crazy and using up so much of their zinc. So things I focus on are zinc, magnesium, iron. D is a big one I focus on as well, as much as I'm in Australia and everyone's like, oh no, your D levels. You know, there's those people that have the genetic anomalies where they don't synthesize D from the sun or we're, you know, out of the sun so much.

40:40
What else do I focus a lot on? Those are probably the big ones. The biggest, yeah. Magnesium, and again, magnesium, like next to impossible to test for, but just, you know, making them feel better. You can test for zinc, but again, I will, I don't tend to do a lot of blood tests on teenagers. I tend to go off symptom picture and then test if I need to. I mean, I will test. Yeah, yeah. And you know, with, if it's...

41:07
Is there anything particular with zinc that you look for? Lots of people talk about the little white spots on their nails. What are some of those common things that you might see? So I look at immunity, how much trouble they're having staying well, you know, or how often they're getting sick. White spots on nails. I look at what's going on with their taste and sense of smell. If there's issues there, that's often a sign of some zinc problems.

41:35
And for females, I'm looking at periods and PMS and what's happening with their hormones because often zinc, the Bs, especially B6 and magnesium are so needed, basically. Yeah. I'm highly likely to hand over a zinc B6 magnesium to teenage girls and acne.

42:00
Let's talk about what teenagers really want health food. Acne. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. So watching their skin go crazy and looking at what they're ingesting and then not ingesting. Yeah. Okay. And then so from an acne perspective, all that zinc, magnesium, B6, does that help? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. There's a lot of tablets, especially practitioner only, but you can get them, I'm sure at health food stores as well. There's, yeah.

42:28
A lot of Zinc B6 magnesium tablets leave my clinic a lot. You know, and I originally order them for females for hormones and PMS and things like that. But I find, especially if the parents don't wanna do a ton of supplementing, I do love magnesium powders that have magnesium and some other electrolytes, taurine and things like that. But especially if I'm down to one tablet for a teen, I would go B6 magnesium zinc.

42:56
combination. Nice. Is it designed for health? Is that your... Oh my God, there's like five different companies. Designs for health, Orthoplex or Bioconcepts have one. I'll use Metagenics. I use Biocyticals. I'm probably Bioclinic. And also Research Nutritionals have a beautiful one. Research Nutrition over New Zealand. I can never remember which one's which, but yeah. No, I have like... Oh, and in Australia, I think you have Biomedica?

43:25
I think I've seen it as well in our little Practitioner only brand but Biomedica makes a great. Yeah, okay great one. Yeah, literally I think all the companies make them. Yeah, no, that's that's great. And you know, what about how do you approach an athlete? Who is like wanting to?

43:45
uh who is overweight for example for their sport and I'll just say it you know they you know they are talking teens yeah teenagers yeah yeah so how do you approach that conversation with them Kira because there's a real you know it's obviously it's a if I say it's a delicate situation I mean it's not like it was when we were kids and you could just go on a diet with your mum you know I don't know can't do that anymore so what do we do no no I grew up with a mum that dieted a lot oh same same here um so um

44:14
That's probably why I ended up as a nutritionist. So what do you do? Yeah, I still, you know, they come wanting it. So, you know, they're in there asking. So I don't dance around, like I'm a pretty blunt person in dealing with it, but I'm definitely gonna check where we're at on the scale of eating disorder or issues or fears around food. So I'm gonna have a really good look at that and conversation with them about it.

44:42
rather than not have that conversation. Cause I wanna know where my safety levels are with a client. And I think that, I think, and I say this to my students that I teach at university, they get so scared when someone comes in and mentions an eating disorder. And again, it's out of my scope of practice if there's a severe eating disorder and sending them on and lots of great psychologists, but...

45:06
my students get so scared about it. And I'm like, no, talk to them about it. They need to talk about it. And you need to know, I'm very big on where their boundaries are around stuff. So I have those conversations rather than pretending they don't exist, because I think it makes it worse. So eating disorder aside, if I know someone's not at that issue.

45:30
What do I do with weight loss? Was that the question? Yeah, yeah. So how do you approach it with a teen versus how you might do it with an adult? Any difference really or not really? I am, my big thing with, probably with everybody is really making sure they're getting their nutrients and their macros correct around training. Because there's so much, especially if we're talking teenage girls, there's so much carbphobia.

45:59
that often they're not having enough carb for their training. And so I do a thing, I guess I do this with these adults as well, around teaching, I'm a huge fan of teaching them a little bit of exercise physiology so they understand when their body is using different macronutrients. Because they don't get that, they don't understand it, and they're all trying to do fasted training, or you're like, hey, just have that little bit of carb before training, you might actually train harder. And...

46:28
And I go, my big thing is post-training, eating window in the right ratio for whatever sport they're doing, you know, and letting them feel safe around when to eat more starchy carbs versus when to, you know, dropping those at other meals. I have a huge focus on protein and making sure they're hitting. So I guess eating around training, protein, making sure they're hitting those protein amounts are probably my two biggest things.

46:57
And I'm a huge fan of macro tracking if they're comfortable to do it. Yeah, nice. Right? And if, you know, whether it's a handwritten food diary or using an app, do I need them to weigh and measure everything? No, only if they're curious. And we think it's not gonna be a trigger or a problem, but I'm a huge fan of a food diary because so many of us don't really realize what we're eating. So just that, I look at a way, yeah, yeah.

47:26
Eating around training, protein awareness. Yeah. And not eating shitty snacks. Yeah, yeah. Right? Like, far out, they eat so well or they under eat during the day. Yeah, really looking at meal sizes as well and making sure they're getting the right size meal at the right time. Because so many teenage girls have tried to eat so little all day and then they're like, you know, face in the fridge all night. No, totally. And that's not gonna help. No, totally.

47:53
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of adults do it too. I'm curious. Yeah, similar to you, like I'm big around that focus around training nutrition and then taking out macros or changing things later in the day for them. And food diary is something I use some of the time, not all the time though, to be honest. No, no, it's not all the time for me either. It depends on the person. Yeah, totally, totally on the person.

48:21
And then trying to just give them good, because I mean, if they're filled with adequate protein, carbohydrate when they need it, they're not gonna be so sort of obsessed and food focused and wanna be eating all the rubbish snacks that are sort of contributing a lot of calories, but not necessarily nutrition. Yeah, and I think also I get with teenagers when they do wanna have a treat, what is there? What can I go and have that's gonna make me feel

48:49
You know, I can have a small amount of that's not gonna throw everything out of it. But yeah. Um, what is your, what is your ratios after training? You like a four to one ratio person or? No, I'm, I think that works for men. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And again, we don't have this research, but I don't know many females that can handle a four to one ratio. I would go, you know, if it's aerobic sport.

49:16
I am looking at that a three to one ratio. If it's weight loss, again, it depends how many hours they're training. More strength training or weight loss could dip down to a two to one ratio, but really making sure, but post-training is that beautiful time to have your carbs. And so that's probably my biggest focus is like, this is this, and I know that some people don't like these words, but it's a safe time to have your carbs. Like you can have, and you don't,

49:46
And then they start eating it and realize how much better they feel. And then they stop letting go of that guilt. Yeah, absolutely. And also, and so just for the listener, the two to one is two carbs, one protein rather than the other way around. That's what we were referring to. Glad I got that right as well. Sorry. I always say carbs first. Yeah. They have four to one protein to carbs. I know, but that's so standard, right? That's a thing that people are sort of recommended.

50:13
And actually the great thing is as well is that when you have your carbs after training, you have a lot more energy. So your ability to expend energy just in that non-exercise activity is just so much better. Like people underestimate how lazy they can be. This is actually not just related to teenagers. This is sort of everyone. This is everybody. Yeah, yeah. When they go hard balls to the wall training in the morning and then they're exhausted on the couch for the rest of the day. Like that is not optimal.

50:38
Well, and it's because they haven't eaten properly, right? That's the biggest thing I find with every athlete is that beautiful window where they're metabolically, their body wants to make more glycogen, their cells are responsive to insulin. You've got that gorgeous space where you can so safely eat and then you're gonna feel great for the rest of the day. I would say, and again, I can't say there's some research, but people's energy levels will...

51:03
skyrocket if they just ate properly after training. And then they're also, when they don't eat properly after training, that's when their brain's all pissed off, it hasn't had any carbs, or it just hasn't had the right fuel. And so it turns up your hunger for incorrect foods or caffeine or you're just trying to catch up all day if you don't eat right after training. That's probably the biggest thing I tell people for 30 years. Yeah. It's funny how... Yeah. Yeah. And also, of course,

51:31
for teenagers who don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. If you've got some grumpy, angry teenager, their moods will be so improved if they dial in this stuff. Actually, I say in and around training, but actually just in general for their diet. It makes such a difference. It is so true. It's so true. Yeah. So, Kara- She says that we both live with a 16-year-old. I know.

52:00
So I deal a lot with parents who are in a fat loss program. The program itself is a meal plan and we've got set guidelines and whilst the meals on a day where they're not, so I do protein sparing fasting with them, so on a day that's not PSMF, the meals are super family friendly. You couldn't look at the meal and go, well, that's a weight loss meal because that's not how I do my food. But of course, on the other day, I was in a weight loss program.

52:27
days the parent is just eating a particular food and it is going to differ to what the family is doing. And how do you talk to parents about talking to their kids about their own sort of health goal and health journey? Because this comes up a lot. Like how do I explain to my 16 year old daughter that I am on a diet? It's a great question, but I have to tell you that hasn't come up for me. And I don't know, but, but

52:55
With that said, it hasn't come up for me with clients, but maybe for myself, I could say, not that I'm ever on a diet, but I'm the type who has to try things all the time. I'm that nutritionist that's like, oh, keto is all the rage. I gotta put myself on ketogenic because I need to see what it feels like. Or intermittent fasting. I've probably tried every style of intermittent fasting to see what it feels like because I don't wanna talk to anyone about anything unless I've done it.

53:23
So I've just been really open with my daughter about, hey, I'm trying this, I don't, you know, and explaining what I'm doing. I just think, I just think it's okay for, yeah. It's tricky, Mickey. I just think being honest with people, like if you have a parent that's overweight, that's trying to do something for their longevity and their health, shouldn't we be just

53:52
be honest and be supporting them about that. Nice. And I'm, again, like now that you know me a bit better, I'm just this blunt person that I think we've got to give them credit for understanding what we're doing as adults. But we need to explain it rather than pretend we're not doing it and then eat all these bizarre meals away from them. I just think we need to be honest about it because.

54:19
doesn't someone who's overweight that wants to do something about it, don't they have the right to tell people that's what they're doing? Yeah, yeah, I totally love that, Kara, you know? And also the idea that, you know, they want to be around, they want to be healthy and fit and capable and confident in 10, 20, 30 years time when their kids have kids and they wanna be there, sort of live their best lives then. And I think that's something that you can.

54:47
you know, have the conversation if it comes up or whatever with your children about it. I mean, I am gonna get myself into controversial topic here. I love body positive, did you say good? Yeah. I love body positivity and I love, Laura Brighton and I were talking about this the other day when we were hiking together. I love that whole movement because we are all different sizes and shapes and we're not all supposed to look like Instagram and Instagram filters and.

55:15
know, yeah, if you have a parent dieting just for, oh my god, I want to be as skinny as possible, that's a different situation versus, you know, trying to be a healthy weight. But I think, oh my god, where was I going with this? That was a bit controversial. Sometimes I read blogs, or I read people's recommendations, and I get if you've worked solely with eating, you know,

55:40
we have that terrible borderline of eating disorder or not, or when there's sliding scale of where people are, it's frightening. But there's this whole movement around, don't talk about your body. Don't talk about your body in front of your kids. Don't, yeah, I agree. Don't criticize your body in front of your kids. Don't always talk about how fat you are in front of your kids. I'm not saying anybody's fat, but you know, you read those things about that. And I...

56:08
I get where that's all coming from, but I also think, but your kids are all exposed to social media and they see it. So isn't it safer to have conversations about body type or body fat and health? I just think, you know, I hear these whole things about, don't talk about any of that with your kids. And I'm like, hmm.

56:30
No, because that's not giving them a reality of what they're going to face in the world. Let's open the... I'm much more about opening the conversation safely. Yeah, for sure. And my daughter and I... Well, and again, this is me or talking to clients. I hate the idea of ignoring the elephant in the room. I hate it because we need to prepare kids and teens for what's actually out there versus...

57:00
Yeah, not speaking about it. I don't know, how do you feel? No, no, I feel exactly the same. And I've had a few conversations with people about that. There's this sort of, it's, and I did actually see something in the paper about body positivity versus body neutrality. You know, what is it? How should you feel about your body? Is it okay not to actually like your body, but actually just like yourself? Like, you know, it's that, I think some, in that body positivity space, people equate not being happy with how you look with,

57:29
not being happy or not valuing yourself. And they're different things. And it's almost been conflated to be that. So therefore we must all be sort of body positive. And then of course it's the health aspect. And as practitioners, and I think anyone that you will talk to in our space, or at least anyone I've talked to in our space has been very much on the same page is that you cannot ignore that.

57:57
there are a certain, you know, there are certainly people who, who may well be metabolically healthy and carry excess body fat. Yeah, absolutely. But, but actually there is probably more people who are, do not fall into that camp, you know, and, and, but also you cannot just use excess body fat as a marker for that metabolic health.

58:18
No, absolutely not. And again, you fall into body types and we're all different body types and some body types are going to carry 5% more body fat than other body types. And, you know, I hate BMI's if we want to get to that BMI's just, oh my God. Yeah, I know. I know. It's so meaningless, right? Yeah, it's meaningless unless you're of average height and probably have a Caucasian background. Yes. You know, like even men. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear you. But yeah, I just, you know, I worry.

58:48
And we're in both directions, yeah. I don't wanna, yeah. And I get how careful we have to be, but I'm also, I'm a fan of the truth. And if there's starting to be a problem, I'm not talking about, oh my God, someone's getting a little bit overweight, have a go at a kid, like that would never in a million years. But I also think conversations need to occur around how staying fit, staying at...

59:14
active and healthy. The stats on especially girls dropping out in sport after the age of 10 are astronomical. I know. And sport is the number one thing to make someone feel good about their body, right? And then you do more sport and you actually, again, eating feels, you know, trying to say it without being controversial in my wording here. The more sport you do as...

59:41
you know, when you're running ultras or when I was eating Ironman, you know, when I was running Ironman, not eating, I was eating five meals a day. I was like, this is expensive. This is the first time in my life. I'm like, I now get what all the guys are saying that, you know, can't keep weight on. Yeah, yeah. You know, sport is so, it's great. Sport's good for everything. So, yeah, yeah. I guess sport is another thing, I guess, I talk to teenagers about.

01:00:06
and making sure they're getting enough because we so drop that ball for a lot of people, especially with weight loss. So weight loss in teens, I'm really, as much as we're sports nutritionists and we're working with athletes, then there's also when they quit their sports and what's happened or during COVID and no one's moving. And for sure. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that, Kara. And with your, oh, so I've got to...

01:00:33
I've got a couple of questions that are so unrelated to teenage nutrition as well. But hey, we've sort of been a little bit- And we're being non-teenagers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. So well, actually, my first question is up and go. Yay or nay? Oh, there's so much better out there. Yeah, there is, eh? You have to remember I'm a naturopath to begin with, and just to make a joke about us, everyone says we take everybody off of wheat and dairy. That's not quite true, but-

01:01:01
There are so many better things to grab. I get if you're absolutely stuck. I get that there's higher protein ones now, but wheat and dairy are such default foods for everybody. Please try to find something else. Make your own smoothie. Make, you know, I just, oh. Okay, no, I know, I love it. I will, I tell you this funny story. And you, like, not that you would approve or disapprove. Anyway, I was at the mid...

01:01:30
Genix conference in like late last year, I can't remember. And I walked into the post lunch and we were just coming in from lunch and everyone had like the leftover dessert or whatever they were eating like sugar. And I walk in with a Pepsi Max, got so many looks. You're gonna say that. So hilarious, hey? And I'm like, oh.

01:01:54
Of course, it's this conference. I go to other conferences, metabolic health summits and stuff, and low carb ones where it's fine. I went for so many years not having a Pepsi Max because of the artificial sweetener, because I was so addicted. But I've definitely more, I include it now. I enjoy it. But yeah, it's quite funny. I did get... Oh no, walking in, that's actually a naturopathic conference. I know, I know. It's like walking in with a McDonald's bag.

01:02:20
I know, I didn't even think I will not do that again. They're the great conferences though, but yeah. But you know, I lecture at university in naturopathy and nutrition and it's hilarious because I always make a joke, the first year everyone's studying, everyone only brings like perfect, perfect meals and like these amazing salads and these things that probably take hours to make that I don't have the time for. And you know, over the years, because it takes most people four years to do that degree,

01:02:50
year. They're still coming in with amazing meals, but there's so much looser around what they're eating and a lot more chocolate gets brought in. I've seen a few sodas pop in. That is funny. Kiri, will you just a stirrer? Maybe I am. Maybe, actually. So tell me, what's your favorite food, meal? Oh my God. Do you have one?

01:03:20
Oh yeah, I have lots of favorite food. Oh my God, now I'm on the spot though. Some of my favorite food. Oh my God, I've gone blank. What do I eat every day of my life? I do love salads, let's be honest, but I'm a huge salad dressing person. I'm gonna admit this. I make a lot of my own dressings, but salad with an awesome dressing, are their favorite foods?

01:03:50
Do we want good and bad? Yeah, what's your favourite non-nutritional food? Like if you were talking. My favourite non-nutritional food is actually white chocolate. Ah, I love it. Like really high quality like lint or when I'm in New Zealand, I might buy a lot of Whittaker's white chocolate. Yeah, yeah, love it. White chocolate just, I love.

01:04:15
fatty food. Let's, okay, I'll get that out there. Like I love pork belly. I love something about, I've always loved, yeah. Salmon. Meat and meat fat. I'm actually allergic to fish, so I have no salmon. It's a devastating, but no fish for me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm actually a celiac and allergic to fish. So it's a nightmare when I come over. That's all right. What else do I love?

01:04:45
My favorite vegetable would be, hmm, that's really hard. Sweet potato. Sweet potato, okay. And what about wine or beer or no? And that would be Prosecco. Ah, love it. And my latest thing is Aperol Spritz. Yes, yes. Oh my God, I could have, because I love Prosecco over champagne. It's not as yeasty. And then the bitters of the Aperol Spritz, yeah. But I'm not a...

01:05:13
Drinking is a take it or leave it. Oh, look, a favorite food, coffee. Oh. That's not food though, is it? Yeah. Well, when you combine it with chocolate, that's quite like almost an entire meal. If I had to pick between alcohol or coffee and I could only have one for the rest of my life, I would go coffee. Yeah, that's, you know, I appreciate that.

01:05:33
I can't tell you what I would do actually. I would probably do- Oh, right. It's interesting as I'm sitting here- Oh, it's not even a millisecond of a decision for me. It would always be coffee. Alcohol is kind of a take it or leave it for me. Yeah, yeah. I have my husband to thank for sort of getting me more interested in craft beer and the like. I would love to do craft beer, but again, I can't. Of course, the celiac, the celiac. And my husband's family had a winery for a while. Oh, wow. So, you know, I got good wine around. I do love a good wine, but-

01:06:02
I don't know, the older I get, the less taste I have for alcohol, which is probably a good thing because I tell you what, that is, if we're talking about treating people in their 40s and 50s, weight loss. Oh yeah. I'm vicious with alcohol and weight loss, actually, if you want my alcohol weight loss thing. Well, that's interesting. We're probably gonna have to have another conversation about something like that sometime in the future, in the future, Kara. Now look.

01:06:29
Just to finish up, I understand you are writing an ebook on teenage and sports nutrition. And I also know that you have sort of, I organized a seminar with Lara later in the year, or webinar, I'm sorry. So can you give us any details on either of those, plus any other speaking engagements or ways to find you? So what do I have coming up? I am lecturing for...

01:06:58
Healthmasters Live, do you ever do any of their stuff? No, amazing. The owner actually lives in New Zealand. It's like a big online educational, CPE points, Educational Healthmasters Live. I've got something this week actually on intermittent fasting in women, which is really interesting. And although there's almost no research on it, but that's part of what the lecture is.

01:07:26
There's, what else do I have coming on? Laura and I are doing, so we used to lecture a lot around Australia together and a little bit New Zealand. And when COVID hit, we couldn't do that. So we started doing webinars online. So we have two webinars that we've done over the last two years on, you know, kind of, well, on women and she brings in the women stuff and I bring in the sports nutrition stuff. She does hormones.

01:07:56
So this year is on teenage and into your early 20s. So menstrual health, teenage health, I'm bringing in the sports nutrition, but we're also bringing it in for guys. Oh, amazing. Like we're gonna talk about teen guys, both hormone health and sports, which will be really fun. Yeah, so, and probably ebook won't be ready until then either. So that's actually October. That's our big.

01:08:25
I don't know what else I'm doing. I, you know, like just ticking along, seeing clients. And yeah, yeah. There's always, I can't think of other lectures I got coming up. Do you have Vitaly over there? I don't think you do Vitaly. No, no. We have, for practitioners in Australia with this massive business now that's where we can order.

01:08:48
so we don't have to carry a lot of stock. It's like an online dispensary and they do lectures. I've got a big lecture for them coming up on menopause in a couple of weeks. Oh, nice. Well, I feel like, Kira, I could talk to you for hours. And I would love to check to you sometime in the future about intermittent fasting in women, and just, because I actually had that down as something I was interested to know your thoughts on, but I do think that it's a wider discussion for- It is a wider discussion. For another day, so.

01:09:14
I don't know a lot more in a week. Exactly. As I finish reading all my research. Oh, fantastic. So if you can just let us know where we can find you online. And I'll also link to your webinars that you did with Lara and of course your website and stuff. Yeah. So all of that is actually in the other podcasts I've been on. This podcast will be on my website. It's just curiousutherland.com.au

01:09:43
And then on socials, my business is, my business name is Uber Health, U-B-E-R-H-E-A-L-T-H, one word. And just to clarify, that's been my business name for 22 years before other businesses existed with that name. Do you know I've only just heard it. It's not a hip name recently. I swear it was a hip name when I made it up. That is fantastic. Kira, thanks so much for your time. Oh my God, that was awesome.

01:10:11
We could go for hours. I know. It's dangerous. I know.

01:10:25
Okay, I don't doubt that you enjoyed that conversation and got a lot of hopefully really practical stuff from Kara. She is amazing and is just so experienced in this space. And I'm really looking forward to her releasing her book at some time, hopefully this year, all about this topic because it's one that she's really super passionate about. Okay, so next week on the podcast, I speak to Ray Zarb.

01:10:54
who is an expedition leader, ultra endurance runner, cancer survivor, all about, well basically his life really. He's such an amazing and inspiration person, Canadian. Can't wait to share that with you. Also registration for Monday's Matter opens this week, Thursday. So if you are looking to head into winter, feeling strong, fit, capable, lean,

01:11:23
awesome and in control of your food and your training. Jump on the Mondays Matter in May program we kick off end of May so you've got a little bit of time to register but not that much and get yourself sorted over the winter period. Alright team if you've got any questions on any of this you can catch me over on Facebook at Miki Willardin nutrition over on Instagram and Twitter at Miki Willardin

01:11:54
MickeyWilladon.com where you can sign up to Monday's matter or book a one on one call with me. And amongst other things, read my blog, you know, do the thing, over on MickeyWilladon.com. Alright guys, you have a great week.