00:09
Yeah, how are you this morning? I'm very good. Little bit tired from my late night, but. Yes, you were like up late doing an Uber driver for the children and doing all of your chores on the Friday. So you do not have to worry about them for the rest of the long weekend. Exactly. Amazing. And of course, part of it was looking at last minute edits to our cookbook, 40 over 40, which I will just absolutely say upfront.

00:35
You just did so much of the heavy lifting for that book. And I'm so grateful that you came to me with the idea. Yeah, well, it worked out really well. And I mean, you wrote all the hard parts. I just got to make the food look pretty. And you did such a fabulous job. So Saskia, I thought it would be great for us to do a little mini-Micipedia episode, because of course, people are just as excited as we are to see this cookbook out here.

01:03
And people who know me know my interest, obviously, in health, nutrition, wellbeing. It's how I spend my life. It's how I, it's my job, essentially. But they don't know much about you. So I thought this would be a great opportunity to share a little bit of your story as a bit of a primer to a book and then have a chat through some of the nuts and bolts of what we're doing. Yeah. Try and keep it short. Where do I start? Okay.

01:32
The food part, I am a foodie. I love food, everything about it. I love the way it looks. I love eating it, I love cooking it. I'm like, food is my love language. Has it always been that way? Yeah, I mean, my mom was a really good cook. In fact, she did a nutrition degree in Otago. And so we brought up very healthy. And so I think that sort of love of savory flavors sort of comes in childhood really. And...

02:01
So, you know, back then it was always eating at home and cooking. And so I learned a lot of cooking from her, but I also left home really young. I left home at 14. 14? Yeah. I started modeling when I was 14 and went overseas and I spent 10 years traveling the world and just been exposed to all these different cuisines and food. And I just, I loved it. I remember the first time I ate pesto in Milan going, Oh my God, this is amazing.

02:31
So now my question, so as a model, obviously, there's a lot of, there's always a lot of, like you don't often equate being a foodie with being a model, I guess. They almost seem like they would contradict each other. So what's your experience in that space? I think it's just that we were so young, you know, 14 to 20. It was like, we're all just really tall, slim, and I could eat whatever I wanted. It made absolutely no difference.

03:01
I mean, there's definitely pressure to be a certain size, but it didn't matter to me at that point because. Because you were that size. Yeah, it was like, you know, and I would bring one of those classic people that was like, oh, you can eat everything, eat everything in moderation. You know, like, what are you talking about? Diets, you know, like just not at all on my radar because I didn't. Yeah.

03:25
Sasi, I have to ask, so at 14, you got that opportunity to be like a super successful model. How did your parents feel about just sort of like waving you goodbye? Did they come with you? Like what was that like? They did. Actually, the first time I left New Zealand, I went to Japan and I went by myself and I'd never left the country. Like our holidays were like camping. So it was quite a culture shock. But it was so different that it was like,

03:53
expected it to be quite different. And they very much look after you in Japan. They drive you to a lot of your castings and you live in an apartment with all the other girls in different rooms. It's like a dormitory and you run wild in the hallways. So it's very controlled. And then when I left, I came home and then we went to Europe and that's when my mom came with me. And we did a big tour of all the different countries and agencies and she met them.

04:23
And it must have been really hard for her to leave. And I know that I didn't have a mobile phone. It would be days they didn't hear of it from me. Sometimes they'd hear from me and I'd be like, hey, I don't want to come home. And then the next week, I'm like, I'm having so much fun, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I mean, it must have been really hard because now that I have a 14 year old and a 16 year old, and I try to imagine what that would be like not knowing every move and being able to look at my phone and see.

04:52
walking, it would have been really hard. So I have a newfound appreciation for the sort of trust, I suppose. But I do think I lived up to it. I was very responsible and I was coming back to having met very interesting people, reading lots of books. I continued doing high school correspondence. Some of my modeling money was spent on the very first Apple laptop.

05:20
which was amazing, but I did correspondence and got leaving school for Stiffengarden. So yeah, I mean, it was the most amazing experience. I look back now and I just can't believe it really. I just find all around the world at that age and knowing Paris, I knew the streets of Paris like back of my hand.

05:41
That's amazing. Yeah. And so you spent, was it 10 years modeling and then you shifted into other areas or was it 10 years overseas? Yeah, so 10 years and then I just wanted to know what it felt like to live in one place. Like I didn't spend more than three months in one place in the 10 years. And I just wanted to know what it was like to have the same group of friends and stay in one place. And I really liked Sydney so I sort of decided that Sydney was going to be the place.

06:10
to stop and I worked a little bit in fashion there for a fashion designer, actually a New Zealand fashion designer, Collette Dinnigan. Oh, yes. Yeah. So it was there that I met my now husband, Max, who's actually a Kiwi. And he got transferred to London for his job. And when I went to London, I was like, right, I want to get into food because that's my other thing I love. And it was right in the time of Jamie Oliver, like, Mac and Chef.

06:40
TV, food TV shows, which we're all obsessed with. And I was like, oh, that's what I want to do. So I was watching the TV. When we got to London, I was like, right, got a good job. And I was watching the TV cooking shows and I just contacted all the producers and I offered to work for free. As an artist, two, three weeks, I was a runner on one of these live cooking shows and just have to go get the food and then make sure that person was there. And so that was a really cool experience.

07:09
I was very lucky that this one contact that I'd made at Collette Dinnigan had also moved back to the UK and she was very well connected in the food scene in London and she did a food PR and she rang me up one day and said, I've got this photographer friend who's having a party tonight. Do you think you could cater for it? He shoots for Jamie Oliver and he's really nice and I'm sure if you do a good job, but get some work with him.

07:37
And I was like, fine. And I was really nervous, but I said, oh, yep, I'll do it. And she sent me off in a taxi to pick up the keys from him on a shoot. And I had no idea of the budget. I just had to kind of guess and cook food for 40 people. But it was on a houseboat on the Thames. Oh my goodness. I had to go and get the groceries, get myself into this houseboat and figure out how to cook all this food and lay it all out and have it ready. And then he got back at sort of 5 p.m. and all the people started arriving. And...

08:06
done and it did go well luckily and turned out that it was David Loftus who's one of the like best food photographers in the world. Oh my goodness. So I got to hang out with him for the next few months and it was all back then it was still film. I think we're still shooting on film and he asked me to stay on and organize his photographic library so that it was

08:29
ordered, if the magazine wanted a shot of asparagus, he could go to the A folder and find all his transparencies of asparagus and sell them. So I did that and that was quite hard because it was like filing little transparencies and the Thames has this massive tide. And so you'd go in the morning and the houseboat would be quite flat. But as the tide came in, it would like rock. I guess it'd be concentrating on transparencies and that.

08:57
to leave at about one o'clock because I'd start to feel sexy. Oh, jeez. Yeah, but he was great. So he connected me to my next job, which was Smith and Gilmore. And they are cookbook designers. And that's where I learned everything. They're a husband and wife team. And just again, total foodies, just so into the beauty of food and lighting. And I got to work with them and commission.

09:26
photographers and organizers of studios and got to the prop styling and like work on those sets. And I was a bit nervous about cooking then because I wasn't as experienced and I didn't want to ruin them, ruin the food. You know, all the pressure, there's like all these people there waiting and you pull out your pie and it's collapsed in the center. So, but I just sort of like did all the props and all the other things then. So I learned a lot about food then.

09:56
I suppose normal food, I want to call it, but I didn't really have an interest in nutrition at that point. Yeah. So how did that sort of evolve? Because obviously you had that background with your mum who was very interested in a healthy diet, doing the same studies, nutrition, but how did your interest evolve? Yeah. So I definitely was like just interested in making it as yummy as possible.

10:23
and not really thinking about the nutrition side of it at all. And it really wasn't until after I had children. So in my thirties and I had them really close together and like just insanely sleep deprived. And I kind of turned, ended up, you know, waking up 35, 10 kilos heavier than I was in my twenties and just like, ah, I don't feel great anymore. You know, like I, um, it was.

10:49
not just sort of the way to not really feeling comfortable in your clothes, but just in my mind, like just felt really low kind of. And I just, that's when I was like, oh, I've got to, you know, the dieting, I suppose, I tried like just cutting the calories and standard conventional diets. And as soon as you stop, weight came back on. And I was like, I can't do this. I can't starve myself then. I'm like, I love food. I love eating. And I don't like.

11:18
being hungry, I was feeling angry. So I have to figure out how I'm gonna cook and eat myself thinner and asking questions to different people, got introduced to low carb and it was like miraculous. And what year was this around Saskia? This is 2017. So I think there was a couple of years of trying to lose weight, mentally. And then,

11:48
It was just by 39, I was about 39. Uh, it was just my 40th and, um, I just, yeah, started, I started, I just, sort of, I get an extra breakfast most days. Yeah. No, I don't do that now, but, um, it was just a switch and just, I couldn't believe that the difference of like feeling full and then, and losing weight. And it was a sort of six month period.

12:17
I guess it is slow, but it still feels fast because at least something's happening. Yeah, for sure. And were you exercising at the same time? No, because at this point, I was like not very into exercise. And I also had Morton's neuroma in my feet. So I was finding walking very hard and anything high impact, but I had surgery and had those removed. But I still hadn't quite made the connection, the exercise connection.

12:46
But actually I was thinking about that, because I was always like the most useless person in the room, and I still probably am, but I care less about it. But being successful and losing that weight made me realize that I can be successful in lots of things if I just try and be consistent. You know what, Saskia, that is, I 100% see that all of the time with clients, but also myself, you know, isn't it just so true when you're able to, it just-

13:13
Evidence builds confidence. Yes. And you just provided yourself with the evidence that you could do it. I can do anything. And that confidence just transfers. Yeah. Yes. And so that definitely spurred me on. And then I got started getting into, okay, gotta move my body and listening to people talk about resistance training and I've gotta give this a go. And so now I go all the time. Yes. No, I totally admire that in you. I think I saw a post the other day.

13:43
and you're up to like 550, you must be up to 555 or something now, classes. 550 today. Oh my God, amazing, totally. Like I just think that's so great. Now Saskia, but you have paleo friends. Yes. Like some of your friends were very much into paleo, but did you not explore that? Yes. Or did you explore that as part of your journey? Yeah, I did actually, but I didn't quite understand, you know how like,

14:12
you know, these light bulb moments. And I was very much first introduced through Nikki to paleo. And I tried, but I wasn't consistent. And I thought, you know, you do it for breakfast, but not like for the whole week or you, I didn't, and I still kind of couldn't, I just didn't quite know how to do it. I needed more of a guide, I suppose, than just being on my own. I guess when I first also got into, I guess the Carrons Inn and Grant Schofield's book had come out.

14:41
in New Zealand. So, Nikki had told me about Pali and then my sister had told me about the what, the fat books. And I forgot that. But even then I still couldn't quite get my head around it. And I was like, right, I kind of need to understand more. And then I started following the Real Me or Revolution book. And I just decided, right, this is the book I'm going to cook for the whole first two months. And that's what I did. I just cooked from that book. And then I started to jumble and, you know,

15:10
more different foods. And I think I did go down the rabbit hole of like, well, this is working. So let's restrict more and more. And I'll go a bit keto and then I'll start fasting. And actually, that's when it all kind of collapsed for me. I think I pushed it too much. I don't need to go there to that level. Yeah, interesting. And but I'm still really interested. So once it worked, once I like, Oh my god, this is amazing. Six months and I can't believe I feel so great. I'm full. I'm like,

15:39
buzzing around the house. I want to know everything I can about it. And I started listening to all the experts. And that's when I came across Optimizing Nutrition. Nice one. And Marty and Kendall. And I think that's when I kind of came back a bit from, you know, realized that low carb is actually enough. You don't need to go. Some people do. And maybe that was part of my journey to get there. But just...

16:05
I also really like eating three meals a day and I like not eating between them. So I am fasting between them. Yeah. I just like having those feeding occasions because I love food. Yeah, and that's, I mean, your experience is a really common one, right? And it's certainly one that I went through as well. It's that you almost have to, like it's when you are really enthusiastic and you do, not a zealot, but like almost everyone in the space that I follow even,

16:35
has had a similar experience where they go to one end of the spectrum and then they sort of come back to this middle ground, which isn't moderation as we used to know it, but it's just the balance of making it work for you, I guess, and the foundations of health. Yes, and then because I started writing recipe books with Marty, and I was logging everything in chronometer, and you can see in chronometer where all the micronutrients are and what's like feeding into your day.

17:04
But you can see that if you go to extremely, you're just not getting all of that variety. And so, you know, my mind works differently now when I'm thinking about food and thinking about a recipe. In my head, I'm seeing what like, what it's adding in terms of nutrition. Yeah. And just that understanding too, of like, how much better I felt when I increased my protein. Amazing. Yep. Like, that was, you know, because at that point, you kind of think, oh, that's the thing you add, like as much as you want.

17:33
But actually it turned out it was the opposite, well, not the opposite, but it was the protein was the most important part. And then you're slimming the refined carbs, and just eating a natural amount of fat. Not really worrying about it, just how it came. But getting that protein piece has really made such a difference to me. And also it's keeping it off, because the first six months losing weight, actually I think you could do any diet really that works for you to lose the weight.

18:01
But how do you keep it off? Like for me now, it's been seven years. Yes. And some people that were on my journey around that time just haven't managed to keep it off. Yeah. And I'm sure it's, you know, because your knowledge changes and you keep growing and learning more. Yeah. And I just wanted to know everything I could. Yeah, and I love that you had that influence from Marty, who is just such a brainiac when it comes to nutrition and food. And I do find it interesting as well that it,

18:31
It seems in nutrition that when you've got an engineering brain, or you don't come from that background in nutrition, you don't have your blinkers on. I studied nutrition, science, so it actually, I think, was a lot harder for me to come to grips with some of these concepts because they were just so different from what my university degree had taught me. Whereas if you don't have that bias, it's actually much easier, I think, to go, okay, that makes sense. You can see how...

18:59
A connects to B connects to C, but it's more challenging if you sort of don't have that background, if you do have that background. There's quite a few of the engineers in that space that are really showing a different way to view things. Totally. And of course, I mean, our book, like, so Saskia actually came to me several years ago, maybe three or four years ago, asking if I wanted to do a cookbook.

19:29
It wasn't that I didn't want to do it, but I didn't feel the compulsion that I did this time around when you came and went, we should do some sort of protein. But I almost, I felt, I feel like now we've both sort of found our space in the nutrition realm, if you like, and protein is absolutely where it's at. Yeah. I think like, yeah, it was like, what are we really adding here? But when we had this idea, it was like, yes, no, this is what will really help people.

19:58
Because the breakfast is really one of the most challenging meals to get enough protein. But if you set yourself up right at breakfast, your day is just so much easier. 100%. So much easier. And with what you discussed with taking keto too far and fasting too far, I see that all of the time with my clients is that they...

20:22
implement a fasting strategy, which then skips a meal and by virtue of just the way that our days run, it always tends to be breakfast. But actually that's the meal that people love the most. I feel so sad for them. I'm like, oh, but breakfast is the meal. Although I do quite like lunch and dinner as well. But you know, and so to have like a cookbook that, and what I love about what we've put together as well is that.

20:49
It's not 30 grams of protein, actually, which is the number you see bandied about all of the time. But if you listen deeper to the likes of Don Layman, Gabriel Lyon, Bill Campbell even, they talk about, yeah, 30 grams, if you were looking at protein in an isolated way outside of the rest of the food matrix, that's enough. But the older we get, and then when you start to put the protein in with fiber, in with the naturally occurring fat.

21:18
we may need to go higher. So 40 over 40 is perfect. Exactly. And when we made that list, which you'll see in the book, there's a list where we looked at how many calories you had to get, had to eat to get 40 grams of protein in different foods. And most of the recipes are really at the top 20 or 10 ingredients there. Yes. So I tried to make sure that, we do have a lot of recipes that utilize protein powder, but...

21:46
Also that we have a recipe for liver. Which is amazing. And there's chicken and there's cod and using up some of these sort of whole foods, high protein, so there's sort of one of everything. So I think we ticked off like one of everything and all that, like that top of the list there. I know, which is so amazing. And the recipes are a collection of both Saskia and my sort of favorite recipes. And Saskia tweaked a lot of my original recipes and just gave it that sort of

22:16
You came at it with a different lens, which I really loved as well. And one of the benefits of the cookbook, in addition to it being, you know, one is over 40 recipes with 40 grams of protein. But I think there's also that element of, well, we're both women in our, are we mid to late 40s Saskia? I don't know. How old are you again?

22:39
I'm 47. Yes, I'm 47 too, almost. I'm a month away from being 47. And so it's like at some point we're sort of in our late 40s, but we appreciate the idea that you can't just have, I mean, you can get 40 grams of protein any which way, but we also need to think about the calorie budget because as we get older, it does make a difference as to how many calories you can eat to maintain, you know, a healthy body composition as well. So we really put a lens towards.

23:07
trying to get maximum protein to the energy content of the food. And we discussed that in the book too. Yeah, we do. And it is, you know, that's people say, oh, I tried adding more protein and I put on weight. That's just, there is a trick to doing it. Yeah, and so we brought the tricks. And understanding that, you know, that you might have so much protein, but how much, how much did you have, how many calories did you have to eat to get it? Yeah. Is, you know, it's a big sort of shift in thinking. Yeah, for sure. So,

23:37
The book is over 40 recipes with 40 grams of protein in the recipes, and they're all pretty much with foods that you would just regularly buy at the supermarket. Yes, we do have collagen peptides in there, and we do have obviously protein powder, and egg whites might be the only other thing which might not regularly yet be on your diet.

24:02
grocery list, but I think they've seen they will be in there much more available than they ever have been, which is fabulous. But they are recipes designed around foods that you're already going to be eating anyway. It's just putting them together in a smart way. Exactly. Just sort of like, you know, topping them up with a little bit of egg white or something just to get that protein amount. But as I was saying to Miki the other day, I have pre-logged them all for everybody in Chronometer.

24:30
And I was sometimes cooking them for breakfast and then lunch. And I was really enjoying seeing that it was once I added like pretty simple dinner, my day was nutrient replete and it was like, wasn't that hard. Yeah. So I think people will enjoy doing that and seeing them. That's awesome. And with that chronometer detail, Saskia, am I right in thinking that if anyone uses chronometer and if they have a paid

24:57
account, which isn't that much per month. I have a paid account and I'm pretty sure I think I, yeah, as a professional. It's like dollars or something. Yes. Yeah. But they can friend you and we've got instructions on how to do that in the book. I need to do that myself actually. And then they'll be able to just search and find the recipe to be able to put it into their date. So you've just made it super simple. I have made it super simple. And I've even, there's quite a few of the recipes.

25:25
which we did a vegan version of. Yep. And I've even logged those in Chronometer. That is amazing. And I've put the name there so they can see the version. And I thought I'd come on later in the week and do a little tutorial on Chronometer and how that works because there is a little bit of detail. I mean, once your friend, friend of mine, you've got the access to the recipes, I can't see your diary and you can't see my diary,

25:55
you've got the recipes. But I'll just explain some of the cool, cool things you can do. That would be amazing. So that will be on Instagram. Yeah. Awesome. And in addition to, obviously, the release of the cookbook, which is initially PDF, however, you can order hard copy as well. So we have a printed version and a PDF version. So you'll have options to do both. We also have a.

26:22
giveaway that New Zest has kindly offered to help support. If you purchase the book in the first 72 hours, then you will go in the drawer for an awesome gift from New Zest, which will utilize some of their protein powders because obviously we used a number of recipes had their protein powder in. Also of course, a container of the Good Green Vitality, which is one of my favorite greens.

26:52
because it does have the adaptogens, it is a broad spectrum multivitamin, has very good quality organic ingredients, and it is a top notch product, by the way, better than AG1. So we're super excited that New Zest is onboard supporting us as well. Yeah, and a couple other features in the PDF version of the book is the meal planning page and shopping list page.

27:20
which you can print out and use. Amazing. And also an index, I suppose, to Micopedia, to all of the different interviews you've done, Miki, that have been my favorites. Different protein experts and anything to do with the subjects we've covered in the book. Just so if people do wanna listen to more information, they can just click to the link and find them. That is awesome, Saskia. And your attention to detail has been an absolute godsend through this entire process,

27:49
I'm very much a big picture person and you really just made it so much easier than I could ever have imagined. So thank you so much for bringing this to life. It's amazing. And I'm so excited. And I'm also super excited because you put book one at the top. So you know, see how this goes. You know, there's more to come. So can you let the listeners know if they're not familiar, where they can find you and what's your handle on Instagram?

28:19
I'm at food.love.family. You gotta get the dots in there on Instagram. And I do have a website which is foodlovefamily.com, no dots, it's a bit confusing, which just has some recipes, but mostly I'm on Instagram. That is awesome, and I always love following you. And I especially love that, not only do you see Saskia on Instagram, you might also see her in a farmers catalog.

28:45
coming to you soon, because she's still putting reps in there, because you're gorgeous. So thank you, Saskia. I'm a 47-year-old. No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter about your age. This is the thing. You're gorgeous, regardless of age. So, Mikki, we should tell people that the printed version, the first print run is the first June, well, it was the first June for the PDF, but the 14th of June is when we're planning on doing the first print run. So, thank you, Saskia. Thank you, Miki. Thank you, Saskia. Thank you, Miki. Thank you, Saskia. Thank you, Miki. Thank you, Saskia. Thank you, Miki. Thank you, Saskia. Thank you, Miki. Thank you, Saskia.

29:14
if you do want a printed copy of your PDF to order that in now, and we'll get the numbers up for the first print run. That's right, actually, because when you order the print run, you get the PDF as well. So it's not that you have to wait for two weeks, but you are able to peruse and do it, and then you'll have it sent to you. Thank you for that Saskia, for reminding me of that detail. See, details person. So we will put links to everything in the show notes.

29:43
So you'll be listening to this on the Monday. So the book will be live and you'll be able to order the cookbook and we know that you're gonna love it. So Saskia, thank you for your time this morning. And I'm looking forward to the next few weeks. Yeah, me too.