00:03
Hey everyone, it's Mikki here. You're listening to Mikkipedia. This week on the podcast, I speak to my friend, Tina Haupert. She's a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, health coach, and founder of Carrots and Cake. Tina and I talk all about her journey in the health space. What started as a personal blog, chronicling her journey to...

00:29
balanced healthy living with real life has grown into a platform and business that helps thousands of women optimize their health, especially those navigating the tricky terrain of hormones, metabolism and midlife changes. So in this conversation, Tina opens up about her own health challenges, what made her to dig deeper into functional testing and root cause approaches and how she helps women shift from chronic dieting to sustainable strength, energy and confidence.

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And specifically we do a deep dive into hair testing mineral analysis, which is super fascinating because I know people who really don't put much stake in things like hair mineral testing. So it was great to get insight from Tina who uses this test regularly to see what insights she gleans from it and how she helps her clients. Because at the end of the day, we're all about helping people the best way we can.

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So Tina and I also talk about nutrition myths, blood sugar balance, mindset reframes, and the power of data-driven coaching that doesn't forget the human behind the numbers. Really great conversation, guys. Tina is a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, certified nutrition coach, and founder of Carrots and Cake. This is a really popular online platform and coaching business dedicated to helping women feel strong, balanced, and energized.

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With over a decade of experience in the wellness space, blends functional testing, evidence-based nutrition, and mindset coaching to help women move from chronic dieting and burnout to sustainable health and vitality. She's passionate about making health approachable and personalized, meeting women where they are, and helping them understand their bodies better through data and compassion. So I've got a link as to where you can find Tina in the show notes, and that's you can find her blog, her resources.

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a million of them and also her podcast. Before we crack on into this interview though, I would like to remind you that the best way to support Micopedia is to hit the subscribe button on your favourite podcast listening platform. That increases the visibility of Micopedia and it makes literally thousands of other podcasts out there. So more people get the opportunity to learn from the guests that I have on the show like Tina. All right guys, enjoy the conversation.

02:53
Tina, great to see you. Super excited, Tina, to chat to you about your health journey, because what I love is that you share so much on social, and I imagine you get a lot of questions about it as well. And then also, of course, talk to you a little bit about functional testing and particularly the hair tissue mineral analysis, which I've got a few questions about. But first of all, tell me about carrots and cake.

03:21
Was it your health journey that sort of got you into beginning Carrots and Cake or was it sort of the other way around? Talk to us a little bit about your background. Yeah, maybe a little bit the other way around. So I started a blog in 2008. So I've been on the internet for over 17 years, which is crazy.

03:39
So I actually started the blog because I was engaged to be married and I just wanted to shape up and look good for my wedding day. And I had been kind of reading blogs at that point. So I had a few that I followed and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna have my own blog. And so I started writing about what I was eating and recipes I was making and my workouts and the wedding planning.

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And I started to realize people were really into my life and my lifestyle and the wedding and all of that. And I really grew a following. And I really did get up on the upswing of blogs. You know what I mean? So yeah, I just grew a following from that and did the blog thing for a long, long time. But in 2011, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. And up until that point, was, I guess, marketing myself as a healthy living blogger. And then I was diagnosed with

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chronic autoimmune disease and it really stopped me dead in my tracks. I was like, what am I doing with my life? Am I actually healthy? know, are some of my behaviors not that healthy? But that diagnosis really threw me for a loop for sure. And at that point, I really started chronicling that journey. And I mean, I went through hell and back. mean, honestly, like I was really, really sick at times.

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And I went through the conventional medical system and there's nothing wrong with that. We need medications, we need surgery, we need doctors. There's amazing things that it does. But for me, being diagnosed at 31 years old, I was pretty young. I didn't want my future to be medications and I didn't want it to be surgery or like losing my colon.

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And I just went through that system, just not getting answers and quote unquote failing medication. So I'd go from one medication, it would stop working, go to the next one, it would stop working. And it was kind of like this game of like medications and insurance and appointments. And I just was kind of miserable with that whole process. And I just knew there had to be a better way.

05:34
One of my readers was a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner at FDN, which is what I eventually became, but she reached out to me and she was a new FDN practitioner and she just wanted to get a little bit more practice and she also had ulcerative colitis. So she reached out to me and she's like, hey, let's run a few labs on you. Let's see if we can get you a little bit more information about your disease, what's going on. And from that moment, I was like, oh my gosh, there's so much out there.

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There's so much that I can do as far as my nutrition and my stress and my sleep and all the things that we talk about that it just opened this whole world to me. And yeah, in 2019, I decided to become an FDN practitioner, graduated in 2020. And at that point, we had been doing a little bit of nutrition coaching. I started as a blogger and then transitioned to one-on-one macro coaching. We did the macros for a really long time.

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But it just made sense once I had access to those tests and I knew how to interpret them that I had to offer them to our clients. It just got us such better results because we had data, ladies bodies, much more than macros. And then yeah, that was 2020. I found Jill, our business coach around there. And it's just, you know, we've been building and creating and just growing this wonderful carrots and cake practice over here. So I guess that's the long short story.

06:52
Yeah, amazing. so Tina, prior to your sort of reader reaching out, had you explored like paleo or autoimmune protocols and things like that? Those are things that immediately come to my mind when I'm thinking about functional nutrition. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It was kind of the time of paleo where it like really blew up on the blogs and the podcasts and everything. And yeah, I went paleo for a very long time. I did the autoimmune paleo diet, a bunch of

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But I never got better with the diets and just knowing what I know about this disease. It's so much more than the diet. It really comes down to stress and the nervous system and your liver and your detox systems and there's so much that goes into it. But yes, yes, I was a big paleo person for a while there. Yeah. And now how would you sort of characterize your diet? I'm just sort of interested. Pretty much eat everything. I mean, I'm not

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a gluten person, but every once in a while I will dabble in gluten. And yeah, just do my best as far as whole foods, really nourishing foods, big fan of minerals, like, they're all rich foods. But I would say like nothing's off limits. I always joke that the only thing I won't consume is Red Bull. It just kind of like grosses me out. Other than that, I will eat it. I'm really not a picky eater. But I think that also comes from

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you know more than a decade of restrictive diets because having ulcerative colitis I just figured if I just removed all the food sensitivities that would do it. That would heal me, that would heal my gut. I would remove the things that were causing issues. But I've learned over the years it isn't about less, less, less. It isn't about restriction. It's actually your body needs more as far as minerals, amino acids from protein and things like that. So yeah, definitely different approach over here as far as like nourishment.

08:41
protein, give me all the minerals, vitamins, nutrients, all of that. Because yeah, there was points where I was really sick that I was eating chicken breast and zucchini and maybe an avocado every once in a while. And like, just, my diet was so limited and my body was reacting to everything. And I just think I got so depleted from just removing, removing, removing foods. So yeah. Yeah. You mentioned like stress is a huge one. Like, because have you always also been a bit of an athlete, Tina, like,

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CrossFit style, into the gym. I think you and I joke about how many gym memberships you have. I mean, albeit I have two, but I think you had like four at one stage, I can't recall. But has it always been part of your health journey, I guess, from the very beginning? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. So I definitely think it's a personality thing as far as the perfectionism, the overachieving, a little bit of Taipei. Interesting. And honestly, up until this point, even this year,

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I finally accepted that the high intensity exercise really was making some of my symptoms worse. And I was actually diagnosed when I was running marathons. And so obviously, a lot of like that endurance training can make things a little bit more leaky, I guess, as far as leaky gut, it was worse. And yeah, I did marathons, half marathons, CrossFit, way too much CrossFit back in the day. And I still do CrossFit, I still run here and there. But yeah, it's a much more

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chill approach to exercise because yeah, was that more is better, harder is better. And for somebody like me who has nervous system issues and autoimmune issues, it just wasn't the best. So live and learn. It took me a long time, long time to change. Oh, totally. And I mean, guess things like that are almost always going to be a work on, right? Because if you're a personality type, which is sort of drawn to the highs and lows of training and the highs of training, I suppose, then

10:35
I can imagine, I think I read a post of yours saying, yeah, I thought I was doing, you were sort of mentioning that you thought you were taking it easy, but actually you weren't taking it easy for what your coach or your, who are you working with? His name's Curtis and he's in Canada and he's with the Gut Solution. Oh, interesting. And they specifically focus on IBD, but he is more their parasite immune system mold specialist.

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And I have kind of a history of mold and all that. So working through all that, he's great. He's really great. Yeah. And what is it about the link between your nervous system and your ulcerative colitis? it, you know, like, has that always been, is it a personality thing, Tina? Like just that you were like revved up or is it actually just integral to anyone that's got UC issues? Yeah. I mean, there's a few things that I think come into play. Like we did some genetic testing actually. And yes, I'm

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more susceptible to having more nervous system responses to things. And also my childhood, I don't talk about my childhood too much, but childhood ACEs as far as what is it adverse childhood experiences. Yeah, so like I didn't have a good upbringing. You my dad was an alcoholic. My mom was a single mom. There's a lot of food scarcity and you know, it just wasn't

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So I think a lot of it does stem from my childhood. Like we moved around a lot. There wasn't a lot of stability and safety and things like that. So I think even from the get-go, I think my nervous system is a little bit higher. And then, you know, add in some of the type A perfectionism, people pleasing, operating at 110 % every single day. It's been a lot. It's been a lot. I mean, even with like talk therapy, sorry, I'm getting on like tangents here. I just remember first starting to work with

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my therapist and one of the first tasks she gave me was sitting on the couch for five minutes and not doing anything. So she was like, no scrolling your phone, no watching TV, no folding laundry. I want you just to sit there and relax and just take in your surroundings. And it was so hard for me to sit still for five minutes. So I've come a really long way, but I think that's how amped up my nervous system is. And then yes, with the nervous system, it's like anything that's going on in my gut.

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Essentially, my nervous system's like, oh my gosh, this is like the worst thing ever. And then, you know, of course, the symptoms and things like that. So I think there's a lot that comes into play with that, but I'm working on it, setting boundaries around work, you know, relaxing, not working all the time, taking it down and not exercise. You know, it's never one thing. Nice. And I imagine that your ability to tolerate foods and other things is so much better when you've got your nervous system sort of in check.

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Yeah, yeah. And I mean, we talk to our clients about this all the time where, you know, they have constant bloating after meals. And then we start talking about, well, you know, what's your environment like when you're eating? Are you eating in the car? Are you eating walking out the door? Are you chewing your food? Are you breathing? Are you taking breaks between bites? But it kind of makes sense. You know what I mean? So I think, yeah, if your nervous system is a little amped up, it's going to make digestion, you know, not optimal.

13:53
But yeah, doing a lot better. Knock on wood. mean, I used to have the gas, the bloating, the cramping, the diarrhea, the blood, the mucus, like all of that. And yeah, knock on wood doing so much better. And I've been off meds for four months. Knock on wood. A lot of progress. That is amazing. Yeah. Tina, you're...

14:18
It's interesting listening to you talk about the nervous system and how that impacts on your digestion. also, I mean, you must work with a number of clients. As you say, you talk to your clients and you can probably pretty obviously see that underlying their nutrition or their, I guess their training issues is to do with the nervous system, to do with stress. And I don't know about you, but I find it so hard to have those conversations with people.

14:47
Maybe it's because they think that they're coming to me for diet, but then we start having these other conversations and they can't quite see the link. Do you think people are better now at seeing the link than what they may have been, I don't know, five or 10 years ago? It feels like it's more emerging that there's something there, but I'm not sure. Have you got any thoughts on that and how your clients deal with you chatting to them about it?

15:14
Yeah, I think just what you said, it's emerging. I think we're starting to pay attention more, but I still think it's one of those things that we overlook. I mean, I'm the perfect example. It took me over a decade to really have it like click. You need to manage your stress and be kinder to your nervous system and get yourself out of that like fight or flight. But I think for a lot of ladies who are high achieving type A, there's a lot of benefits of acting this way as far as

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achievement and checking things off your to do list and feeling a certain way about your accomplishments. And yeah, I think a lot of our clients are working moms. They're managing the house, you know, they are going to the gym, they're doing all the things. So there is like that feeling of accomplishment, like acting this way or behaving this way. And I also think it's really hard to make changes in this department as far as like managing stress, because we've always been told, more is better. And like to think

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should sit on the couch and not fold the laundry or not listen to the podcast to expand your knowledge in this, you know, XYZ topic. So I think like the stress piece is really hard. And if you think about like the nutrition or fitness piece, that's so much quote unquote, easier, you know, and I think that people are coming to us for that. But of course, like when you get that stress piece under control, I think you're able to handle the nutrition and the fitness better.

16:37
But yeah, that's like a really hard conversation to have, because everyone's like, I'm not that stressed. But I think a lot of us have gotten used to operating at 110 % every single day. You were so right. This is like it's an area that they've thrived in, and they've almost had to be that way to be as successful. And I often think that, I mean, if I ask someone if they're stressed, you can almost immediately sort of see it in their body language, even over Zoom, just,

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how they sort of hold themselves and how they breathe as to what their body is telling me, but what they tell me may be quite different. So sometimes it's better if you sort of, if you had the opportunity to ask someone who's close to them. know, as Tina feeling that stress right now, you're probably gonna get a much more, I don't know, I guess honest answer or a reflection of the truth.

17:31
Right in the tongue. So Tina, what I know about you and the content you share, and just from talking to you, is how much the functional testing has really helped your clients. Which functional tests helped you first? And then did that give you the buy-in you needed to then explore this further, I guess? Yeah. So I think that the functional testing was really eye-opening because

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It really did validate a lot of the symptoms and feelings that I had because my doctor would run traditional blood work and everything would come back in the normal range. But then I just did not feel great. I mean, especially with my eye condition, like I was going to the bathroom multiple times a day, I was seeing blood in the toilet. Like it was really bad at times. And a lot of my blood work was totally normal. So it was like really crazy. Obviously there were some markers that were off, but

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I would just get like non-answers or, you know, just like no action items as far as what I could do to improve the blood work that was out of whack. So with the functional testing, I just had different data. So I think the HTMA, the hair tissue, tissue mineral analysis was probably one of the most helpful in the sense that it really called me out on my stress levels. And that's it.

18:54
our bodies, we lose minerals and electrolytes when we are stressed out. So, you know, running marathons and, you know, endurance training. Like if you ever ran an event and you're like, your skin almost gets like salty, like after it, you you're sweating so much. Like that's an extreme example of like losing sodium from the body, but you lose magnesium, you lose potassium. So obviously like a physical event, you'll lose important minerals and electrolytes, but also just everyday stressors, you know, chronic stress. All of us work.

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always kind of like stressed out. So our bodies end up being like really depleted from minerals. And then you add in the exercise, the sweating, like all of that. think just a lot of ladies are like really depleted. But for me specifically, all of the high endurance or the endurance training, the CrossFit, I have a almost 11 year old son, pregnancy, breastfeeding will leave you pretty depleted. mean, you're growing a baby, you're birthing that baby, eating that baby. It's like a lot.

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lot of resources that the mom is losing and then just chronic stress, you know what I mean? So that test was really helpful. And on the first one, there's a pattern called the four lows pattern. your four minerals are all below the reference range. And those are calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, and they make up, you know, 80 to 90 % of the minerals in our body. right off the bat, I saw this test and it was just

20:17
your minerals are flatlined. This is why you have no energy. This is why you're falling out. This is why you can't build muscle. Like you just don't have the energy as far as resources go to feel your best. So that was really helpful. And then also the test is helpful just to tell you what your body needs nutritionally to thrive. Instead of guessing or doing what everybody else is doing on the internet or buying greens powders from influencers. I had a test that said, Hey, your body is

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really deficient in potassium. You need to start consuming more coconut water and eating avocados and more bananas. And I just think it was a more personalized approach to my nutrition. And it felt like I had some control over like what I should be eating instead of just restricting, restricting, restricting. And I started the will better.

21:07
I mean, that was the thing. Like I just had more energy. I was in a better mood. And then I think from there, things started to just get better and better because I wasn't so depleted. I wasn't so exhausted all the time. So, you know, it with a lot of the time. Yeah. And it's super interesting because I've got, you know, I've got friends and they absolutely, and they're very science based. And they would, they call out a lot of functional tests. Like they don't buy into

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the hair tissue mineral analysis, they don't buy into the Dutch test, they don't buy into a lot of these tests, I haven't used the hair test before. Although, and I've got to say that getting to know you and your work over the last three or four years has really intrigued me as to how helpful it might be. Whereas prior to that, I'm like, well, there's not a lot of literature on it and what does it tell me? Albeit, it's interesting because I don't have that same analysis on the Dutch test, which

22:05
I have used a lot in my clinic and it's been super helpful. Like why is there this mismatch between what we see in the literature, for example, with the hair mineral tissue test versus what you see practically and what I know in the success I know you have with your clients? Yeah, no, we get that question. And I always say it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges. So blood work, I think, is kind of like old standard for, I don't know, checking mineral levels and all that.

22:33
But what you're seeing in the blood is like a snapshot in time. And for some minerals, it's only a tiny percentage of what is actually in your tissues and cells. So for like potassium, only 2 % in your blood, but then 98 % is in your tissues. And your hair is essentially a dead tissue. So it's a good way to get more of a record of your mineral status versus like a snapshot in the blood. And we always say like,

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the hair is almost like the rings on a tree, like kind of tells a story and your hair grows at a rate of every like an inch for every three to four months. So when you're sending in your sample, it's actually looking at the last three or four months of your life and it can kind of give us an idea of what you need to do nutritionally. And yeah, I just don't think, you know, it's a standardized test for like conventional doctors. Maybe they're just not trained in it or maybe they don't know, but just kind of what you were saying, like working with clients and really leaning into the nutrition and the minerals.

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like our clients, they just feel better. You we have clients coming off thyroid medications, which we tell them to do, we would never advise that it's not our place to do that. But they just do. They feel so much better, you know, so I don't know, I just think about electrolyte, you were to collapse at the end of a marathon, somebody would come over and give you like an electrolyte powder or a goo or a gel or you know, something like that with electrolytes. So I think just simply getting enough of the right things, you're going to feel

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so much better. So I'm not sure if it answered your question specifically, but you know, it totally did. The validity of the test. Yeah, no, I, you know, and I'm with you Tina and that, you know, when as practitioners, we look at there, like I, my sort of framework for looking at research and evidence base, I suppose. Yes, there's some of it that comes from science and literature, but even the gold standard of science, and it's just a good reminder for people, those randomized controlled trials,

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everything is controlled, absolutely everything, apart from the one thing that they're interested in understanding mechanistically what's going on. And that's just not how we live real life. But yes, that's really informative. And then of course, you've got, like to think about it through an evolutionary lens, like what have we been designed to be able to evolve?

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from, like I'm not suggesting we all need to go back to caves and wear loincloths, but you can learn a lot from how we've evolved over time. But then of course, know, clinical practice, like the evidence that you have and that really people, the only evidence people really need is, well, how do they feel when they have that data in front of them? They make changes that change the outcomes of how they feel, but also it's very visible. You can see it in a test, retest situation.

25:19
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And we'll see people. we use something called a symptom scorecard because I'm with you. Like I love a good test data, but if you're feeling better and your symptoms change, I'm like, yeah, it's quote unquote working. But yeah, we do something called a scorecard and it's, probably a good 10 pages long, but it asks you about every symptom under the sun related to your blood sugar, your gut, your energy, your menstrual cycles, like all of that. But they fill that out when they first take the test. And then, you know,

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depends on the program, but three to six months later, they'll fill out that symptom scorecard again after they've already done the mineral test. And a lot of times their symptoms are cut in half or more, just based on what they've made with their diet and their stress management, because that's an important part of it too. But it's just incredible. You see these awesome changes in people. And are you with me in that,

26:10
You can't really get everything, or even if people think they're quote unquote eating healthy, they're getting in their protein and they might be having a salad at lunch and maybe vegetables at dinner, you can still run shy on a lot of the minerals and the vitamins and the micronutrients that we need just because the diet isn't really set up to provide it all. Yeah, I agree. And we like supplements over here. So sometimes we're supplementing magnesium or

26:38
We've been into iodine lately as far as iodine deficiency and stuff. But yeah, sometimes we'll add some supplements in for our ladies. yeah, just emphasizing just getting a variety of foods. I know a lot of people like eating the same thing, but we're always encouraging ladies to just seek out more variety as far as the mineral rich foods go and everything. But yeah, I agree with you. It's hard to cover all your bases, but it's nice when you have a test like this to really see where you need to

27:06
the potassium. Everybody needs more potassium. Tina, I'm interested to understand more about the patterns because I think the way that you talk about it is super insightful on social media. You just mentioned it earlier. When you look at a hair mineral tissue analysis, do you often see patterns of low minerals that then align with some of the symptoms that you see? Or do you

27:34
Or is it a pattern of super low in one, fine on the others? Or is it a bit of both, depending on the individual? Yeah, it definitely depends on the individual for sure, and kind of where they are in their health journey. So like that four lows pattern that I saw on my first test, we'll see that for women who just had a baby or a couple babies, or who have gone through a really stressful time in their life. We might also see it if they have gut issues, because if you...

28:01
have the most perfect diet, eating all the mineral and nutrient rich foods, but then your gut is not ideal and you're not absorbing things properly, it can show up in that pattern too. So with that pattern, a lot of times that person or that client probably needs more food, more nutrition, minerals. yeah, like under eating would go into that category. And then they need rest. They need to just lay off the exercise potentially, you know, set some boundaries with work. But really,

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spending time like nourishing and resting their body, which is hard for some of our ladies to hear. But that's one that we see again and again. And I feel like that really is giving us info that that person is kind of in that exhaustive stage of stress, almost like that burnout stage of stress. And a lot of times it does go hand in hand with how they feel, just like exhausted, trouble getting out of bed every day, low motivation, hair falling out, know, things like that that just scream like,

29:00
too much, the body just needs a break and just needs to rest and get some good quality food in them. Yeah. And then I wonder how many women you see sort of come to you super interested in things like hormone replacement therapy, which I'm a fan of for a lot of people, for sure. And even like I've got, I certainly think that there's a lot you can do with diet, but

29:26
If you can get on something which helps you stabilize things to then work on your diet, that's great. But I do also think about that in the context of pregnancy, for example, like postnatal depletion, you know, like being super deplete in minerals. I often think that women of our age with everything going on, that a lot of their symptoms, I think are hormone related, well, they are, but that's not actually driving it. It's actually these low minerals in this just nutrient deplete state.

29:56
Yep, 100%. And yeah, something we say in the mineral world, the minerals drive the enzymes that drive the hormones. So a lot of time, if there is a lot of hormonal imbalance, we can backtrack it to the minerals. But if you think about it, if you're low in minerals and really depleted, there's no real, I guess, motivation to have high sex hormones as far as production goes.

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things like that. And I'm with you, I'm not against HRT. I think it can be amazing for women and really, really help them. And obviously, there's research now coming out as far as like the benefits and starting it sooner than later and all of that. But I also think those hormones will work better if you have your nutrition and your minerals and your lifestyle and stress under control, it's just going to work so much better. Because, you know, there's many ladies out there that go on the HRT and they're like, it didn't work or it didn't work.

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as well as it did. And then I always think about like, what else is going on? So that's where we come in. It's like, how do we actually optimize? So you feel your best if you decide to go the hormone route. Yeah, nice one. And then with something like the HMTA, like how long does it take to see a change in these numbers? And I've seen you report on social, I've seen you do sort of befores and afters with people's

31:12
tests. And I mean, you mentioned the three to four months is how long it takes for our hair to grow. Is that what we should expect in order to see a change in the test? Or will it actually take a lot more time? what's the... Yeah, so I've heard ladies like two or three weeks saying that they feel better, just simply adding more electrolytes and just really leading into the nutrition. So you can feel better like pretty quickly. And I think that's why we like the minerals so much.

31:37
But I think to actually see like your test results change, we usually say like four to six months. You can test as soon as three to four months, know, just, you know, as your hair grows, you know, you could do another test. But I'd like to see like a little bit longer between tests, just so you can see how much change there is. And then of course, with any health journey, it doesn't just end, you know what I mean? So once you do that retest, like now you have new things to work on. And that's the thing, the...

32:02
Minerals will change and the ratios will improve in theory. But again, I just like the test because it's so easy. Like we send you a kit right to your house, you cut a little bit of your hair and I always tell ladies if they have longer hair, just cut it from the back, you know, you'll never miss it. Send it off to the lab and then you know, we get the results, you know, a couple of weeks later or so. Just like such a Are there any limitations Tina that you see in practice with the hair mineral test that you need to navigate?

32:31
As far as like the testing goes or like the results? Yeah, the testing or does like the, I imagine you're consistent with the lab that you send it to. those are things that people need to be mindful of. I suppose if they're looking at the hair tissue mineral analysis, like the lab it's going to, I don't know, time and transit, does that even matter? Like does the hair change once you cut it? Like, I don't know, like at least things you need to think about. Yeah, so if you dye your hair, and of course we work with a lot of women,

33:00
Um, so if you do dye your hair, you know, cover up the grays or whatever, you have to wait six to eight weeks for it to grow out because you really need that like natural hair. Um, but you know, I always get like, I'll do like the front and the sides. I don't, I don't get too many grays, but my hairdresser, she's my, my friend, my girlfriend, she doesn't really die the back. So like the stuff back here is more like natural. Um, so yeah, you just have to get like the natural hair. And then of course,

33:25
swimming in pools like chlorine or salt water. We had a male client recently, his barber cuts hair, but he sprayed some sort of like salt solution on his hair, something like that. But it really skewed his results because we got his results back and his sodium was like sky high. So of course we emailed him about it and he's like, oh yeah, I forgot my barber sprayed this stuff on my hair. So we had to send him a new one.

33:50
But yeah, there's like little things like that that can kind of skew the results. But you know, we have instructions as far as like how to get an accurate sample as far as like hair being in its most natural form. I find it interesting what you say about potassium. So because I've also seen what you think about the electrolyte supplements, like you, you don't hold back there, which is totally fine. Like I'm a big fan. But I think you've said, you know, I love the element and when and and all the other ones have now popped up because of it.

34:19
What don't you love about them? I mean, I'm not a total hater. It's just sometimes I think we see things on Instagram and we think like, oh, we should do this. But then, you you use a supplement and it either doesn't do anything or it makes you feel worse. So that's why I like the testing. And then from the testing, you know, make a recommendation there. So I like the ones from Paleo Valley. They have, you know, good whole food ingredients and they taste really good.

34:46
We also recommend the pickle haul one. It has a good mix of different electrolytes in there. It just kind of depends. I think if you like it and it works for you, go for it. But I think a lot of people are just buying magical solutions and not really realizing what their body needs. And most of the electrolyte supplements, they don't have a lot of potassium. There's all these FDA rules in the United States as far as how much potassium you can have in a supplement.

35:13
And our needs are really high. I mean, I've heard 4,000, 5,000 milligrams a day and most have like, I don't even know, 200 milligrams. So like whatever electrolyte supplement you have, powder or whatever, you're always gonna need more potassium. So a lot of times, I actually did it today, put a scoop in here of my electrolytes and then I put a bunch of coconut water mixed with my water. Just to cover your bases as far as what you need.

35:39
Yeah, I don't hate the ball. It's just kind of like, I think a lot of people are just thinking like, oh, magical solution. And I'm like, well, is this exactly what you mean? Oh, no, totally. It's a little bit like and to be fair, I mean, not that I need to defend myself, but I run a lot. I lose a lot of soul. I end in it. But equally, though, I do see a lot of supplements which are absolutely targeted towards women of our age, like happy mammoth. I don't know if you've seen happy mammoth and these are these

36:09
Yeah, these hormone supplements, are supposed to, know, they literally, they're advertising teenagers like melt fat away. And like, I don't even know how they get away with that. people are just, I guess they're really speaking to a bit of the desperation that some women feel this time of life because of all of the things that we've just been discussing. And so if they think they're going to get it by, you know, paying $120 a month, because it's an easy solution, then I can see why people get sort of like caught in there.

36:39
Oh, totally, totally. mean, the other day I had a client come to me and she said, she was asking me questions about a woman's creatine. I was like, what makes it special for women? You know, I had to like go and see what was in there and it was pink and like all that. But yeah, I just like the marketing and messaging and I don't know, I guess we're trying to make things as simple as possible. I do think a lot of our ladies, they're just so overwhelmed and they just feel like hopeless and helpless and kind of lost.

37:07
in this whole health journey. So I'm just like, let's just make it as simple as possible. And we literally have like a food list and it's like food support for minerals. I think that's what we call it. But we just list foods that are high in the minerals, just so, know, if you want to do an electrolyte powder, you know, go for it. But also, you know, you can get minerals from food too, and you have to eat. So, you know, we're just always encouraging people to buy more, you know, good quality, like whole foods, like potatoes. They're great with potassium.

37:35
They are great with potassium. How much potassium does ketchup have? Tina, do you know? Oh, I don't know. I'd have to check. I mean, probably a teeny bit, right? Yeah, surely it's good. And can people improve their mineral status from food alone? Because I know there will be people who really don't love the idea. It doesn't matter what it is, but they just don't really love the idea of supplements. But do you see significant improvement when people make these diet changes? Yeah, for sure.

38:04
Food is probably our number one, because I do think you can get really good results. As I always say, you have to eat, you have to go to the grocery store, so let's the foods that your body needs. But yeah, sometimes we do add in some supplements. We're not crazy supplementers. We might give somebody three to five supplements, depending on what's going on with them, because there are certain patterns that we see that, yes, a supplement is gonna help get you there faster. But we also have clients that they're like, I don't wanna spend money on supplements, or I don't have extra money to spend on supplements. It just kinda depends.

38:34
can add up. But the thing about minerals is stress. Stress will really deplete them. So of course, if you're not managing your stress, you're not setting boundaries around work, if you're not laying off on the exercise, if you're not sleeping, all of those things are going to prevent you from improving your health as far as like the mineral status goes. So you know, as much as it's food, it's also, you know, the stress management too. Yeah. Do you get people, do you get vegetarians coming to you, Tina?

39:02
Yeah, vegetarians, vegans, and yeah, we love them. They just have to work a little bit harder with their nutrition. yeah. And do you often see that their mineral status is a bit lower just because they're not getting the animal protein in or you haven't? What kind of other patterns do you see? Yeah, it kind of depends. Depends on the person because we worked with vegetarians and they do a great job with the protein and a variety of fruits and veggies and all that.

39:29
But it just kind of depends because I'm sure you've worked with clients like this too. You can be a vegetarian or vegan and eat bagels and Quest bars. You know what I mean? Just like not the highest quality nutrition. So it kind of just depends on the client. But we have worked with vegetarians and vegans who really have embraced changes.

39:50
Again, I think it just kind of goes back to like the client and kind of where they are in the journey. But I do think they just have to work a little bit harder as far as like meeting like all the nutritional needs that they have. Yeah. And what about this is I'm just keep firing questions at you as I'm thinking about them. But I really love the organ supplements, like the organ meat supplements and things like that. First Light is a company in New Zealand based company, but it's also based in the US and they do those organ meat supplements.

40:19
Is this a supplement you might recommend to some of your clients? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a couple. There's one from Smidge that they do a beef liver, and then Paleo Valley has like an organ complex. But yeah, that could be something like a four lows person might need because, you know, those organs, have the iron, the zinc, copper, the vitamin A, retinol, they have everything in there. So it could be like a good place to start for some of those people. But yeah, we'll recommend them quite a bit because

40:49
I've tried to liver, I've tried wrapping it in bacon, I've done all sorts of things and I just can't eat it. Do you not like pate, Tina? I actually, I would eat a pate. I don't mind that too much. But we've got the chicken livers from the grocery store. Have you seen those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. to grind them up and put them in burgers, which was okay. And then yeah, we tried wrapping them in bacon. I was like, well, if it's in bacon, it's going taste good.

41:16
I just couldn't. No. We've put it in ground beef before. And in fact, there was a company here in New Zealand which sent me mince with livers added. So I didn't have to sort of like think about it. And I know you can get that done at your butcher as well. And there was a organ meat flavor, which wasn't unpalatable. It was just different, right? And in fact, when I have, when I do have organ meats and a friend of mine is like this as well, like,

41:46
It's almost like this superfood. just get this like, oh my, I feel amazing after like even like 50 grams of it, which really reminds me that it's a bit, can for some people be such a, like a bit of a superfood. I know I should revisit it again. We actually had a client who would freeze it and just like cut it up and then freeze it. And then just kind of like down the frozen piece. And she said it didn't have like a strong flavor. And I was like,

42:13
one that's genius, and then I was going to try it myself and then I never did. So maybe I should do this with it. yeah, what about, who was it, Liz Wolf from Balanced Bites? I'm pretty sure she used to do frozen liver and put it in a smoothie or something, which always sort of made me feel just a little bit, I wasn't quite sure about that, but yeah, the frozen piece I think is something which could be a real workaround for some people. Tina, outside of HTMA,

42:43
Do you use the Dutch test or what other functional tests do you do in clinic that you found have been super informative for your clientele? Yeah, so we do the Dutch. We like that one. We work with ladies in perimetopause and metopause. So can be really helpful as far as just seeing what's going on with hormones. And then the cortisol part of the test, I think, is really telling for ladies, especially, you know, sometimes seeing that flat line of cortisol is always really telling as far as like what's going on.

43:10
And then the GI map, which is a stool test that looks at the gut and digestion and all of that. So we run those three and then depending on the client, we might run another test depending on what they need. So we've done the oat, we've done food sensitivities tests like the MRT, iodine loading tests, mold tests, as far as like the moat. So it kind of just depends what the client needs. But with our program, you get those three tests right off the bat.

43:38
I think those three together, you really get some good correlations as far as where to go as far as next steps. I imagine because if you've got the stool test which shows you that you're not absorbing anything and then you've got the low minerals in your hair, is that the kind of correlations that you see sometimes with people? Yep, exactly. Even things like estrogen issues, estrogen dominance and stuff, you can actually look at the gut to see if those estrogens are

44:08
being detoxed through the gut. So there's like really cool correlation there and like the leaky gut. Or if you have like a sensitivity to gluten that might be causing more inflammation in the gut that would show up in the minerals. The four lows pattern with low cortisol. So that's a lot of like interesting patterns that you can make. And then we will use blood work here and there. But again, it just kind of depends on the client and what they need. Yeah, yeah, I use blood work for a few things. But of course, there are so many

44:37
To your point about electrolytes, it doesn't tell you anything really about electrolytes in the body because they're so tightly regulated. And then there are just some things like B12, which a low B12 will tell you something, but a high B12 doesn't tell you that you can use B12 or anything like that, which is some of these functional testing will give you much more of a guide as to what you're metabolizing and what you're using and excreting and things like that.

45:02
Yep, 100%. And with the HTMA, sometimes with that B12 that's high on the blood work, we'll see low lithium, lithium orinate. And sometimes supplementing that can make that B12 absorption better. So just like little like clinical pearls like that, we can just like help as far as the minerals go. But yeah, there's some just like interesting correlations to those three tests and symptoms and all that. Nice. Have you used CGM, Tina, either personally or with your clients?

45:31
Yes, personally. And then I talked to you when I last saw you about it. And it's funny because probably like two weeks after I saw you, one of our clients told us about the lingo, which you can get on Amazon for $49. And I'm like, okay, that's a lot more affordable than the one I was recommending. That was like over $200. So we've been recommending that to all of our clients. They are so into it. They're loving it. They're loving the data. And yeah, with this next

46:01
fit and fuel group, we are going to be devoting some time to CGMs because I think they are so helpful, like so, so helpful. So yeah, really excited. And yeah, thank you for getting me on that again. Because I was like, yes, this is great. Yeah, I was just chatting to a client about it just before we jumped on a call. It's just such a good behavior change tool for the person. Like if you can see what that food

46:27
how that food is affecting you, but also how your stress is affecting you. Like it's going to really like that's like real time data that is really difficult to then to ignore because you can't like, you know, it's sort of like knowledge is power, but it's also a bit of a pain in the ass because then you know, sort of on you to change it, which is what I love about the CGM. I don't know, I have real...

46:50
I know that there are some really big voices out there, particularly in the nutrition space, who are super against them for anyone who doesn't have type 2 diabetes or type 1 diabetes, which I feel is really short-sighted, actually, given their potential to help improve the people who might not be at that stage of a chronic illness, but is certainly making their way there. Oh, yeah.

47:17
I love it. Now that we have our clients on them, they're sending me their screenshots all the time, just showing me the differences. It's just like the littlest thing. So I had one client where she was having smoothies for breakfast and things like that. And she would see her blood sugar shoot up and then she'd be hungry a little while later. And she started to have more of like a high protein, high fiber breakfast. And she was sending me her before and after screenshots. And she's like, I feel so much better. I didn't have an energy crash. wasn't hungry.

47:47
until lunch. just that tool helped her make that change because you can tell people these things all day. We all know that we need a high protein breakfast. But if you've been drinking a smoothie for five years, it's hard to get out of that habit. But I think seeing that kind of gives you almost like an aha moment that like, oh my gosh, my body is responding different. And then that, of course, encourages that behavior change. But yeah, our clients are super into it right now. I get screenshots every day.

48:17
And how long is fit and fuel, Tina? Like when you work, because it's quite an intensive process, isn't it? Because you do the functional testing and then you're working with these ladies over what is it? How many months? Six months. So yeah, it's a long time together. That's why we say to them, I'm like, you got to be committed because we're going to be spending a lot of time together. so weekly calls, active community. Yeah, we cover all the bases as far as metabolism goes. Yeah, nice.

48:46
As I understand it, they come into Fit and Fueled. It's not about weight loss per se to start with. Am I right about that? It's not actually a weight loss program, isn't it? No, it's not. And that's, it's always like a hard sell because everybody wants the weight loss program. Like that's the exciting stuff. But yeah, we really focus on getting your metabolism responsive again and just your health, like your overall health. I think a lot of ladies come to us with

49:10
insulin resistance, blood sugar issues, thyroid issues, hormone issues, adrenal issues, all the things related to various types of stress. So for a lot of them, it's really kind of bringing their body back into balance. And then when they have figured out how to maintain their weight and they've really developed these amazing habits as far as their protein and high quality foods and breakfast and minerals and all the things that we talk about.

49:37
then they can go into responsible fat loss phase. And that's what I teach because it's not about crash dieting. It's not about starving yourself for eight weeks to gain the weight back right after you go back to eating normal. So I really try to give them a strategic forever approach to body composition change. But yeah, I like to call it a metabolism transformation program, which again, sometimes a hard sell if you want to lose weight.

50:06
No, totally. But also I imagine that many of your clients will be women who have done the crash diving, they've done the restriction, they've done the over exercise, and they've accumulated several thousand dollars worth of things which have really gone against their health. And I don't know about, I mean, you must get this as well, Tina, but a lot of the people that I see now are like, you know, sure, I'd like to lose a few kilos, but actually I just want to feel better. Yep.

50:33
Yeah, 100%. I think you get to your 40s too, and you're just like, I'm done with the yo-yo dieting. I just want to feel good and happy and balanced and not snap at my husband for no reason. So I always say the goal is to feel better and then to look better. Because if you don't feel well or your body is super stressed, it's not going to be easy for you to lose weight. So obviously, feeling better is the goal. And then in theory, the weight loss will come because it will be easier because

51:02
your body's more balanced, you're more sensitive to insulin, your thyroid's happy, and then you have the habits to support that. So you're able to lose the weight and then maintain the weight. So that's really what we're trying to do. And that's why it's a longer program. I wish I could work with these ladies for a year, but it's been long time. Yeah, no, it totally is. And Tina, does the HTMA tell us anything about, what does it tell us about thyroid?

51:28
Oh, so there's a thyroid ratio. So the test does tell you about the levels of minerals that show up in your hair, but then the ratios are those. And so with the thyroid, it's actually the calcium potassium ratio. And the reason why we all need more potassium, I mean, one, because we just don't consume enough, but it can make the cell more sensitive to thyroid hormones. So you have the thyroid hormone, you know, floating around in your blood and yada yada. You know, that's what we measure on a blood test, but it actually needs to get into the cells.

51:58
But if there's not enough potassium to get in there and there's too much calcium, your thyroid meds, your thyroid is just not going to work as well. So, making you just give us idea what's going on. So sometimes I think the optimal is 4.2, but we'll see people in the hundreds as far as that thyroid rate. So it's not a diagnostic test. not saying, oh, you have hypothyroidism, you have Hashimoto's. It can't diagnose you. Like you would definitely need a blood test to really like confirm, but it's going to give you some

52:27
good clues as far as like what to do, where to look next. Same with blood sugar, same with adrenals. So yeah, it's helpful for just, we need to do a little bit more digging here? Yeah, nice. And I guess, if you've got, when you mentioned about the high calcium to low potassium, it's not saying that people need to restrict calcium, but it's just about the, you need the substrates to regulate, to get these things to where they're required in the body.

52:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You just need like a better balance of those. sometimes the calcium, well, so what's happening when you see high calcium, it's leaving the bones and the teeth and it's ending up in the hair. And obviously we don't want that to happen. So that's where some supplementation would be helpful as far as like K2 and things like that, magnesium to make sure, you know, the calcium staying where it needs to stay. But that can make the cell less sensitive to that thyroid.

53:18
So yeah, it's just really interesting. It's just like such a cool test because we'll see people in the hundreds and they're like, oh, I have hypothyroidism and we're like, oh yeah, that's what we're seeing on the test. Yeah, that would be super validating actually. And do you get that same correlation between that HTMA and say the Dutch test with what you see with cortisol and things like that? that like super, like the four lows on the HTMA and then that

53:48
cortisol dysregulation? Is that a common pattern for both? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes we'll see that for sure where like the cortisol is mismatched and then we'll see like low cortisol with like the four lows, things like that. Yeah. So there's a lot of like really cool correlations on the test. But I think that's why it's helpful to do three. Because I think if you just do one, it just leaves you with more answers, especially like running the Dutch by itself. I'm always kind of like, well, like why are the hormones doing this? So it's just nice to have all three.

54:16
Yeah, no, totally. And you've got such success with your patients, well not patients, clients, Tina, using these functional tests. This is why I feel it is short-sighted that we just dismiss them out of hand. If you see these results, that would be pretty difficult just to determine with no tests. Like, yes, you can plug in what someone eats. Because the alternative is, of course,

54:42
You just get someone to go into chronometer and write down everything they eat and be super rigorous with it, which is a fine snapshot for maybe a day to even a week, but you're relying on that self-report data and it's not really giving you that history that you're then going to get with the testing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, agree for sure. yeah. Nice one. Okay, I've got like two last questions, Tina. The first one is, I mean, if you have absolutely no information at all about anyone,

55:11
What are three supplements that you might suggest women of our age should need regardless? Are there any regardless that you tend to recommend? I love my creatine. Obviously, muscle is really important and now there's all these brain memory cognition benefits of creatine. I always recommend that. I feel like you've talked about creatine too. It is pretty well studied, it's safe. I like that it's affordable. It's not super expensive.

55:40
Love a good creatine. I do like electrolytes. I just think it's one of those things that you can kind of cover your bases. And there's a bazillion out there. The body bio one is good. I think it's just an easy way to just add to your water. So that's usually one. And then a lot of times I'm recommending magnesium just because it is another one of those that I just feel like we're deficient in.

56:07
I would recommend a potassium supplement, but I think you get more bang for your buck through food just because you would need to take so many supplements. And I'm like, you might as well just eat. It's so much tastier and easier to get them. And I think your body actually receives the potassium from food probably better because a lot of times the potassium supplements just aren't the highest quality of potassium. I don't know. There's all these rules and regulations around potassium supplements.

56:31
I've gone down so many rabbit holes. No, totally. you know, like, because what too much potassium you get like heart arrhythmias or something like that. That's why it's so... Yeah. But for the most part, if someone had low potassium, like, are you confident they could correct that with food? Yeah, I think so. I think it also will take a little bit of time. And then that stress piece is really important. Oh, and GI issues too. yeah, there you go. Yeah. You know, if you have more loose...

57:00
stool, I guess, you're losing a lot more potassium too. So we've definitely had clients that they've tested their HTMA. Sometimes we'll see not detected on their test as far as potassium goes. And then we're encouraging them to consume more. And they'll barely see that potassium move. But it's not just the food. It is also the stress and the GI stuff. So again, it depends. But yeah, I think you could if you were consistent with it. I've definitely seen mine improve over the years because mine was a one.

57:28
Wow. And what would you expect it to see? What would optimal look like? I'm not sure. I'd have to like look it up, but it's definitely higher than a lot. is low. One is very low. Very low. Yeah. Nice one, Tina. So I know you have a podcast. Obviously you've, I think you've just started running your fit and fuel for the next six months. Is that right? Yep. We're on week two. So we just started. Yeah.

57:54
Amazing, but I know you have other ways that people can work with you. Can you just let people know the different ways which they can connect with you? Yep, yep. So Fit and Fueled is my group coaching program and we enroll for that twice a year. So the next group will be in September. And then we do have a one-on-one functional testing program called Metabolism Accelerator. So if you're somebody that really thrives with that one-on-one attention, working with a coach or a practitioner one-on-one,

58:22
that program could be really helpful for you. It's just more hands-on, you know, as far as like the one-on-one attention and results and all that. And then we always have the HTMA. It's the only test that we run by itself, just because I do think it's so valuable. And the results are, I don't know, it's kind like the low-hanging fruit, at least for me, because as I have to eat, you really probably need to manage your stress. And I feel like if you could do those two things, you're going to be in a much better place as far as your health goes.

58:49
We always let people run that when they want and people do multiple tests too. So it's such a cool test. Nice one. And is it carrotsandcake.com? Yep. So carrots, the letter N and then cake. I'm carrotsandcake everywhere, Instagram. I do have a YouTube channel. And vlog. And what about your podcast? Is it called Fit and Fueled? Yeah, we changed the name. We changed the name. Yeah, was carrotsandcake podcast for a while, but

59:18
just to help people find this a little bit easier. It's fit and fueled now and that's kind of like my model for life. No, I love it. Yeah, so good. And you interview some interesting people, particularly about things that are super on, if I say on trend, what I mean is like, I know that you've discussed peptides with experts, you have client stories, which I always find super inspiring. And then also just other practitioners. And I think the more that people

59:45
which is one of the reasons why I wanted to chat to you Tina, because you have a different approach to a lot of other people that I sort of connect with. And it's clearly, you you're helping the people you work with. So the more that people know of the different options, just, you know, the better outcomes you can get. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And especially with like my own journey through this health system and everything, there were so many times I felt stuck and I felt like nobody would...

01:00:14
thing or I just didn't know how to get help and like that's the worst feeling is when you don't feel your best and like you just don't know what your next step is so I think that's you why I do what I do but just what you were saying there's so many people that want to help others get healthy and you know there's not one right way so I think it is nice to hear from different people and get different perspectives because we're all so different and who knows what's gonna work so

01:00:39
Yeah, just thank you for saying that because yeah, the podcast has been really fun to do. I feel like I've learned so much from so many different people. Same. Oh my God, I know so much more now about what you do. Of course, I knew what you do, I like just with regards to just the patterns and the other functional tests and stuff, I've just found it super valuable. So thank you so much, Tina. Yeah, thank you.

01:01:17
Alrighty, hopefully you enjoyed that as much as I enjoyed chatting to Tina. She's such a wealth of information and really, and she really provides a ton of free resources that can help you get some quick wins in your health journey. So I just really love that. Next week on the podcast, I speak to Brandon D'Cruz about spot reduction, body fat spot reduction and whether or not it's a myth. Spoiler, it's not, and he tells us how to do it.

01:01:46
That is next week, until then you can find me over on threads, X and Instagram @mikkiwilliden, Facebook @ MikkiwillidenNutrition or head to my website mikkiwilliden.com, book a one on one call with me. Alright guys, you have the best week. See you later.